Engine Fault 1.4 TSi 160, be aware

[janherko]

To my knowledge the only engines affected were made in the first 6 months of 2009, I would be interested to know if engines in 2010,11,12,13 were ok.

Mine left factory in 03/2009:(

[tony4147]

mine was 06/2009

[janherko]

To my great disappointment, VW have earlier today refused to intervene in fitting new engine into my Rocco, allegedly due to non-fulfillment of their strict criteria, since last 2 services were done by non-authorized dealer...I spoke with previous owner about this and though he visited authorized dealer the first 2 times, he then switched the dealers and had the service done at different one...certainly looks like caught in a big trap:(
I had to move the car some 5 km within city, driving on 3 cylinders, to the specialist who's able to disassemble the engine and probably fix it in as best as possible way...I'm looking at some 1000 euros overall cost, at least...as I was told, all four pistons with rings would need to be replaced, assuming the cylinder or head is not damaged...
Anyone could advise me on where to get OEM pistons with rings at lowest possible price? Some german shops maybe?

[bitmadmax]

Check out this topic over on the other forum:

http://www.scirocconet.co.uk/forum/misf ... t9397.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems there is at least some acknowledgement in the UK and some positive action experienced from customers with the affected 1.4 engines.

[janherko]

Yep, I've read that one...I understand that VW have apparently no problem with replacing engines as long as all required service visits were done at authorized dealers...unfortunately in my case, the previous owner had last 2 services done at different garage so no help from VW here whatsoever...
Speaking of which, the engine was disassembled yesterday and I had a chance to take a fine look on what's really wrong...the 3rd piston is cracked, though not totally damaged...ring on this piston however scratched the cylinder from the inside so I'm looking at needing a new block with pistons...couldn't be a better scenario:((
Problem is that it's pretty hard to get such thing as everyone sells the whole engine only, which starts at some 2000 euros, as I took a look around here...tbh, I'm quite hesitant to pay that kind of money...
Another option is to have the cylinder mechanically polished, there are a few specialists here in Slovakia and they offer some 1-year warranty on their work...then replacing all four pistons and we're done...maybe:(
Anyone can elaborate on such situation?

[carmanvw]

My commiserations on your bad luck with VW, but also my thanks for the heads up in relation to servicing with main dealers. In the past, I'd switch from main dealer, to trusted mechanic as soon as warranty was up, for two reasons;
1- he was normally cheaper by a massive margin
2- I believe he did a better job, and didn't just tick the boxes as you'd expect at main dealer, but with a trained ear for problems, he'd quickly diagnose and remedy issues.
But, in the last few years, as people shopped around for better value, and more tyre centres advertising cheap servicing, VW Ireland introduced fixed pricing on services. It means they don't just pick a figure out of the sky when it comes to the bill.
Mines a 122ps, but on the basis of this story, and the fact that I'm not sure the scirocco is as well put together as the Golf I had previously, I think I'll give myself every chance and stick with VW, and hopefully I don't end up at their mercy either way.

[the_winner]

Speak with Central VW Offices in UK, Here in Greece we have the same problems in 1.4 TSI Engines and VW Greece fix the problem for free or with 70% Discount if you are out of warranty . It's VW Fault not yours! Also you dont loose the warranty if you go to non authorized VW service center . In europe we are lucky, search for
Cars Block Exemption Regulation (EU)

As i told you the 3rd piston cracked at the point of the rings (common problem) like this huh ?


Also if the cylinder is scratched and finally you will fix your engine outside of the dealer dont change the whole Cylinder block dont be stupid you can fix the stock cylinder like new !

[bitmadmax]

The servicing is a very grey area I'll admit. Here in the UK, as long as your chosen service place is VAT registered and use approved (VAG?) parts, you cannot be treated any different as if you had the car serviced with VW themselves (in terms of warranty)

I've often wondered if having a cylinder refurbished and a piston replaced would have any "imbalance" on the rest of the engine. Presumably you will end up with one cylinder which is ever so slightly bigger than your other 3.. I'm not a mechanical person by any means but personally I would only be satisfied with crate replacing the entire engine unit :/

[janherko]

Thanks for all your remarks, guys...
I'm totally dissatisfied with the whole VW's approach in my case but since I tried to get their intervention on this already through 2 dealers to no avail, I don't think I have any more chance with them...there's only one official importer in Slovakia and once they rejected my car, it's useless to try to persuade them through another dealer...
I was vigorously told I have no chance in getting new engine from them since the 2012 visit at authorized dealer is simply missing in the VIN database...the fact the car was serviced at non-authorized dealer, though with proper procedure and OEM parts (filters, brake fluid, etc.), is critical as their strict criteria for any help provided out of warranty simply won't accept any other scenario...this is what I was told...as well as if there was that damn mark in service book, the whole new engine for some 9000 euros!! would be fitted by them for 100% free...once the guy told me this, I thought I was going to hit him...
I'll definitely check the EU regulation but abovesaid leaves me no space for any hope since I can on the other hand understand their rigorous attention to loyalty...why would we help you if you avoided our servicing and gave money to someone else??
The thing is I need the car to be fixed as soon as possible since I travel a lot and had to postpone several business trips over the last week...so I have to focus on what's the best solution in terms of money and reliability...a specialist told me that they are totally able to polish the inner space of cylinder to OEM specification and put warranty on it...since the cracked piston is the 3rd, he also advised me to replace pistons number 2 and 3 for new as they always work in pairs, 1 with 4 and 2 with 3...
(The Winner) And yes, the piston itself wasn't cracked that much, the ring on it was much worse and scratched the cylinder from the inside...
I'm still trying to get the best price for pistons as 215 euros apiece at authorized dealer looks kind of too much...
(Bitmadmax) I'm sure the best satisfying option would be to have the new engine fitted but what would you do in my scenario? I paid some 11 000 euros for the car, which was a good price, but paying another 6000 for this disaster wouldn't make it such a good deal anymore...the first dealer showed me their price once the importer rejected intervention: 4900 euros for "half engine" and 1000 euros for labor

[the_winner]

Ok so VW UK will not help you , no goodwill ,nothing . Ok take your car from the Dealer go to a good VAG Service center and fix your engine

I suggest you to change all 4 pistons and the rings with the latest part number from VW because as i said the first pistons in 2009 productions are not so good. Change them with the latest part number .
Also before you buy the parts you must visit the other Service Center(better than Dealer) to speak with them .If the cylinder is scratched you will need to strip all the engine and send the cylinder block to a CNC Specialist to resurfacing all 4 cylinders . If the scratches is too big then the CNC Specialist will remove more material so the stock VW pistons will not make proper seal and you will need aftermarket pistons(better than VW from forged material ) CP-Carillo USA makes Pistons for 1.4 TSI.
Also dp makes pistons for 1.4 tsi .

Good luck , if you need more information tell me

[janherko]

Thanks a lot for all the advice...
Well, the engine has been stripped down already by my specialist and I just took a look on it yesterday...the inner space of cylinder is more grooved than scratched as the mechanic let me touch it to feel the roughness myself.
I also spoke with CNC specialist earlier today who advised me as posted before: to resurface the damaged cylinder in a way it's completely identical with the three remaining...and so the new pistons (number 2 and 3) would "settle" as they should. He also said it's not necessary to replace all 4 pistons. But as you say, if VW updated pistons for 1.4 TSi, it wouldn't be safe to have 2 new and 2 old pistons, right?
What do you think?
Also, if I chose to buy the newer OEM pistons with rings, can you confirm the part number for me?

[Deacon]

Would it not be cheaper to maybe source a good used engine through ebay or from a scrap yard maybe?

[janherko]

I checked used engines as the first thing...the cheapest on german ebay are from 2200 euros plus I'd need to have it shipped across a half of Europe and just imagine potential warranty issues if something comes up...
No one on ebay will give you any special warranty on used engine...and since the 2009 engines were quite vulnerable, I'd need to go for a newer one...we're talking 3000 euros, at least

Resurfacing the cylinders will be some 200 euros according to the CNC specialist, 4 new complete pistons with rings 03C 107 065 BF some 600 euros (found a good seller of OEM Vag parts from CZ), labor some 300 euros...and I still have a warranty, a year on a resurface of the cylinders, standard 2 years on new pistons with rings and of course on labor of my mechanic, too...his garage is some 3km away from my place

Edit: I´m taking the block to the CNC specialist for fine resurfacing and insertion, the 4 complete pistons 03C 107 065 BF are on their way from Skoda Czech republic (cost cca 760 euros for a pack, some 150 euros cheaper than from VW Slovakia), the diameter is 76.5 mm, I do hope it will settle as it should...will post some pictures of the broken piston and scratched cylinder tomorrow. Seriously thinking of getting rid of the car once the repair is done and never setting foot on anything called 1.4 TSi...
just read some posts from http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; yesterday, this piston failure thing really IS a serious situation on 1.4 TSi 118kW, all over the world...at least another dozen guys are reporting identical problems, starting with misfires, changing coil packs, spark plugs and eventually low compression on some cylinder leading to broken piston and piston ring...I suggest that anybody on this forum with this engine, take a great care on where you service your car and avoid non-authorized garages so you´ll be eligible for a VW´s goodwill in case like mine...there was only one visit at non-authorized garage and they rejected it

[janherko]

This is my Viper Green without its pride:)
Anyway, the cylinder is being resurfaced at the moment and 4 new spec pistons will be fitted...I'm curious what the result will feel like...all the other engine components were checked, turbo, supercharger, etc. so we have a great general engine workaround.
Overall cost cca 1500 euros, some 6 weeks without the car:(

sorry, the picture didn`t go through:
"Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached."

[janherko]

I´d like to upload some pictures of the resurfaced and honed cylider block with 4 new pistons + damaged old 3rd piston, for whatever reason it just doesn´t work when I´m trying to add attachment...

anyway, after almost 2 months without the car it should be all done tomorrow...in addition to abovementioned I decided to replace all 16 hydraulic valve lifters and timing chain for new parts plus all the other engine components were properly checked in order to put my mind in rest that it WILL be working as it´s supposed to...I also had new brake discs and pads ready to put on before the piston accident, it´s done as well...
overall cost 2200 euros, labor incl.

I´m excited to drive the Rocco again, mechanic also advised me of proper running-in the engine, first 1000 km with max 3000 rpm...we´ll see

[janherko]

Another Rocco era;)

[janherko]

Just a brief addition:

I've alredy done some 2000 km in the car since the general "surgery", it runs pretty well and so far seems stable and responsible...0-100 km/h in 7.3 seconds measured by an BMW iOS app, Shell V-Power 100, ESP off... this is a stock engine, bluefin was erased by 24S4 campaign performed in January:)
we've performed several compression tests, battery checks and diagnostics over the last month and thanks to my eager mechanic and good CNC work with cylinders plus of course all the brand new parts, much better complete pistons, new timing chain, valve lifters, etc., etc., I'm pretty much having a good time in my Rocco again...compression tests showed almost 13 bars in each honed cylinder with new pistons as opposed to some 11-12 before (not to forget the cursed 3rd cylinder with some 6.5 bars, when it all happened)

I went to the VW stealers the other day, just needed one tiny bolt for glove box handle and had a talk with VW guy, who told me about another issues with Golf 6s and Tiguans with identical engine and another upset customers...he also said that the fact VW has in 2011 replaced pistons for this engine is not a coincidence...they pretty much knew there will be issues every since the production had begun and that the pistons may or may not endure
simply horrible

Also, just read about 2016 new Rocco coming up and guess what are already confirmed engines:)
1.4 TSi 125hp only turbocharger
1.8 TSi 180hp detto, replacing our current shitty engine
2.0 TSi 230hp, a nice boost over current 211hp plus much better torque
R is not yet confirmed in specs, I'm guessing 300hp like Golf 7 R is minimum

what more to say, just be careful with these indications, as emphasized many times before:
misfires
oil leaks
any indications on low compression in any cylinder when on diagnostics

and of course, obey damn VW service rules so you can get remedy directly from them...my previous owner visited different garage just once and had the car bluefined (VW can see any access to ECU in their protocol, no matter what) and I was refused any help from them...

[Paralla]

Why would you buy a second hand car with missing service history for the last 60 000km and expect it to be trouble free?

I hope it was very cheap.

[janherko]

There wasn´t actually missing service history; only that those last 2 service visits were at non-authorized dealer...
and yes, it was damn cheap, some 11 000 euros for 40-months old 1.4 TSi 118kW viper green Rocco with almost full equipment inside (except for the pano sunroof, folding mirrors, full leather and pneumatic suspension, there´s everything you can get)
I even saw original invoice with purchase price of some 34 000 euros. The car was bought here in VW Bratislava in July 2009. I bought it in January 2013.

[byminas]

The 1.4TSI is very good engine with high tuning capabilities . Here in Greece the 1.4 TSI Engine is very famous due to high taxes on 2.0L+ Engines and here we tune a lot the 1.4 tsi .
We have Big Turbo 1.4 TSI , Hybrid Turbo 1.4 TSI (stock engine) . GTX2867 1.4 TSI , GT25 Turbo 1.4 TSI , TD04 Turbo 1.4 TSI . The most of the tuned 1.4 tsi have stock pistons without problem, pistons are durable till 270hp

BUT
1.4 TSI 180hp version( Polo GTI, Ibiza Cupra,etc) have problems with high oil usage .
Also the first 1.4 TSI CAVD(Scirocco) at 2008-09 production had problems with broken pistons this is why the 24S4 Update was a MUST from VW .
After that VW change the part numbers at the pistons and make more durable pistons . Also there are defected Fuel injectors at some MY2010 production cars(you can confirm that via Revo Technik ) So with bad fuel injector AGAIN Breakage of the piston ...

hi winner i m in athens as well and i think i have the same problem as mentioned in the forum (my local mechanic said low pressure on the 3rd cylinder). is there any possibility you can pm me your email and guide me through the process? thank you.