cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
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- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:00 am
- I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
- In: Rising Blue
- With a: Manual box
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
I've been reading this and some other threads with interest as my son's 160PS has recently developed a discernible misfire, but more noticably, well down on power when accelerating. Having read though a lot of the info here, I'd convinced myself that it was just a regapping issue with the plugs as has been discussed in the excellent info provided by RW1.
The car was bought new on 30th June 2009 [initially for my wife, who since sold it on to my son in late 2010] and has only 23K miles on it.
Was booked into the dealer on Thursday for an 'interim' service, with a request to clean the sparkplugs and carry out a regap to 29thou.
He didn't half get a shock when he went to pick it up again when he was told it would quite likely require a new engine!
Because of his misfire report, apparantly they decided to do a compression test and the #1 cylinder is well down at 70 compared to 160 for the other three! When he brought it home there is now a pronounced tapping noise at idle! ..almost as if a tappet wasn't filling with oil. I also thought there was a quite strong petrol smell from the exhaust. To say he is in shock is an understatement!
Of course the car is one month out of warranty and initial approaches by the dealer to VW have suggested a 70/30% split on cost [about £1K by my son] which there is no way I will settle for! It needs be 100% by VW!
From my understanding of the problems posted on these forums, VW should be well aware of the issues with this engine by now. My stance is that all affected cars should have been recalled for a free sparkplugs upgrade when the replacement was issued in November last year, and maybe the problem could have been spotted then, when it was in warranty.
In any event, a 23K mileage is the equivalent of about 2 years average motoring and certainly shouldn't result in an engine failure within such a short period on a new car!
I'm 60 years old and the last time I heard of any compression issue on a 'new' car must have been about 40 years ago! And even then, mileages were at least 60K plus.
Current position is I registered a complaint with Customer Care on Friday and have been allocated a case referral number which I will discuss again on Monday when they reopen.
Am I right in thinking that if the car continues to be driven in this state [my son needs it for daily travel to work] then there is a good chance it might destroy the catalytic converter with 'unburnt' fuel?
BTW I'm not sure whether his software is fully up to date, but do know it was done at the prior service as the gearchange numbers now appear in the display.
If anyone has any comment to make on how I might persuade VW to cover the full cost of this faux pas, I'd be very grateful. There is a further 'complication' when the servicing dealer stated that in such cases VW like to see a contribution by the dealer which they would 'match' - in this case 15% each, but the dealer did not supply the car in the first instance, so my view is why should they be asked to contribute anything? We have been 'banned' from the supplying dealer as I had to sue them over truly shocking delivery paintwork on my wife's present Golf Match [same basic engine too minus the 'charger!] She is now considering moving her car on, after learning about this....
Have a look at this thread by the detailer who did the correction [the first damage pics are mine] http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/s ... p?t=188296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's another I posted at the time http://forums.thedigitalfix.com/forums/ ... p?t=598936" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The car was bought new on 30th June 2009 [initially for my wife, who since sold it on to my son in late 2010] and has only 23K miles on it.
Was booked into the dealer on Thursday for an 'interim' service, with a request to clean the sparkplugs and carry out a regap to 29thou.
He didn't half get a shock when he went to pick it up again when he was told it would quite likely require a new engine!
Because of his misfire report, apparantly they decided to do a compression test and the #1 cylinder is well down at 70 compared to 160 for the other three! When he brought it home there is now a pronounced tapping noise at idle! ..almost as if a tappet wasn't filling with oil. I also thought there was a quite strong petrol smell from the exhaust. To say he is in shock is an understatement!
Of course the car is one month out of warranty and initial approaches by the dealer to VW have suggested a 70/30% split on cost [about £1K by my son] which there is no way I will settle for! It needs be 100% by VW!
From my understanding of the problems posted on these forums, VW should be well aware of the issues with this engine by now. My stance is that all affected cars should have been recalled for a free sparkplugs upgrade when the replacement was issued in November last year, and maybe the problem could have been spotted then, when it was in warranty.
In any event, a 23K mileage is the equivalent of about 2 years average motoring and certainly shouldn't result in an engine failure within such a short period on a new car!
I'm 60 years old and the last time I heard of any compression issue on a 'new' car must have been about 40 years ago! And even then, mileages were at least 60K plus.
Current position is I registered a complaint with Customer Care on Friday and have been allocated a case referral number which I will discuss again on Monday when they reopen.
Am I right in thinking that if the car continues to be driven in this state [my son needs it for daily travel to work] then there is a good chance it might destroy the catalytic converter with 'unburnt' fuel?
BTW I'm not sure whether his software is fully up to date, but do know it was done at the prior service as the gearchange numbers now appear in the display.
If anyone has any comment to make on how I might persuade VW to cover the full cost of this faux pas, I'd be very grateful. There is a further 'complication' when the servicing dealer stated that in such cases VW like to see a contribution by the dealer which they would 'match' - in this case 15% each, but the dealer did not supply the car in the first instance, so my view is why should they be asked to contribute anything? We have been 'banned' from the supplying dealer as I had to sue them over truly shocking delivery paintwork on my wife's present Golf Match [same basic engine too minus the 'charger!] She is now considering moving her car on, after learning about this....
Have a look at this thread by the detailer who did the correction [the first damage pics are mine] http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/forum/s ... p?t=188296" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's another I posted at the time http://forums.thedigitalfix.com/forums/ ... p?t=598936" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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- Posts: 2
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:00 am
- I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
- In: Rising Blue
- With a: Manual box
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
Just a quick update on this one.
New engine installed [including new injectors, plugs etc]
Full cost covered by VW with 7% contribution by dealer.
Dealer said piston edges were burnt - he now thinks that these [pistons] have since been upgraded in later engines, apart from the newer plugs etc.
Interesting to see that VW are dropping superchargers from future models now.....
New engine installed [including new injectors, plugs etc]
Full cost covered by VW with 7% contribution by dealer.
Dealer said piston edges were burnt - he now thinks that these [pistons] have since been upgraded in later engines, apart from the newer plugs etc.
Interesting to see that VW are dropping superchargers from future models now.....
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
hello
i have a 2009 1.4 tsi jetta , engine code CAXA, european version, 90kw, 122HP.
i am the first owner of the car, real mileage.
i also have misfire on cold start, i have misfires on all of my cylinders.
i have about 4500-6000 misfires recorded per cylinder. i have a cloned VAG-COM and i was able to read this.
these misfires show up only when it is warmer outside, in the summer, no misfire in the cold season or if i start the car again. they appear only if the car was sitting about 6-8-12 hours.
they show up for the first 20-30 seconds after the engine starts (engine preheating) and after 20-30 seconds they dissapear.
i also have rough idle, popping sound in the exahust, black smoke exiting the exhaust and a strong smell of petrol in this time (20-30 sec), especially if i rev it up in those seconds.
for example if i rev it up to 3000rpm after the start, 20-30 sec, no misfires during the acceleration or after.
i have no missfire while runing the car, NO ECU fault code, the car runs perfect after this, it has power, absolutly no misfire after engine preheat.
car has 68.000km, problem has started around 61.000km, summer 2015.
because of these misfires i have went to vw repair shop and changed:
- the injectors, OEM updated ones
- timing chain kit
- spark plugs
i have changed all of this and the car has returned with the same problem. the mechanic from vw repair shop told me that this is normal behavior, because of the ECU software. i refuse to belive this...WHY? because the car has been running the same ECU software in all of these years and it didn't show any of these misfires.
it runs only premium gasoline.
in 2011 or 2012 it has received a software update because the engine couldn't keep idle within specification in the cold season. no problem after the update.
my actual ECU software is G9473.
can carbon deposits on my intake valves be the problem? i have read about it.
also, i have heard that this is normal ofter some reading on the internet, catalytic converter warm up phase, to be more eco-friendly...but again...WHY?
i don't think this is normal, i had no misfire with the first ECU software and no misfire for about 2-3 years with actual ECU software, these misfires had appeard "out of the blue".
so...is this normal after all? can this misfires to cause engine damage? this is the real reason i am so worried about.
i have read this thread but i want to be sure because of my sudden misfires apparition, car has been running without these misfires about 61.000km and 5 years.
i have attached 2 youtube videos with the car behaivor:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
please excuse my english,i did my best, i am from Romania.
i have a 2009 1.4 tsi jetta , engine code CAXA, european version, 90kw, 122HP.
i am the first owner of the car, real mileage.
i also have misfire on cold start, i have misfires on all of my cylinders.
i have about 4500-6000 misfires recorded per cylinder. i have a cloned VAG-COM and i was able to read this.
these misfires show up only when it is warmer outside, in the summer, no misfire in the cold season or if i start the car again. they appear only if the car was sitting about 6-8-12 hours.
they show up for the first 20-30 seconds after the engine starts (engine preheating) and after 20-30 seconds they dissapear.
i also have rough idle, popping sound in the exahust, black smoke exiting the exhaust and a strong smell of petrol in this time (20-30 sec), especially if i rev it up in those seconds.
for example if i rev it up to 3000rpm after the start, 20-30 sec, no misfires during the acceleration or after.
i have no missfire while runing the car, NO ECU fault code, the car runs perfect after this, it has power, absolutly no misfire after engine preheat.
car has 68.000km, problem has started around 61.000km, summer 2015.
because of these misfires i have went to vw repair shop and changed:
- the injectors, OEM updated ones
- timing chain kit
- spark plugs
i have changed all of this and the car has returned with the same problem. the mechanic from vw repair shop told me that this is normal behavior, because of the ECU software. i refuse to belive this...WHY? because the car has been running the same ECU software in all of these years and it didn't show any of these misfires.
it runs only premium gasoline.
in 2011 or 2012 it has received a software update because the engine couldn't keep idle within specification in the cold season. no problem after the update.
my actual ECU software is G9473.
can carbon deposits on my intake valves be the problem? i have read about it.
also, i have heard that this is normal ofter some reading on the internet, catalytic converter warm up phase, to be more eco-friendly...but again...WHY?
i don't think this is normal, i had no misfire with the first ECU software and no misfire for about 2-3 years with actual ECU software, these misfires had appeard "out of the blue".
so...is this normal after all? can this misfires to cause engine damage? this is the real reason i am so worried about.
i have read this thread but i want to be sure because of my sudden misfires apparition, car has been running without these misfires about 61.000km and 5 years.
i have attached 2 youtube videos with the car behaivor:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
please excuse my english,i did my best, i am from Romania.
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
Hi,
Has anyone with 1.4 tsi engine found the solution to the start-up problem of 30 second warm up time (noisy and yearky behaviour)? Noone had the same problems after 2012 but me and zaharel91?
If the problems stopped what was the solution or did you learned to live with it?
Best regards,
V
Has anyone with 1.4 tsi engine found the solution to the start-up problem of 30 second warm up time (noisy and yearky behaviour)? Noone had the same problems after 2012 but me and zaharel91?
If the problems stopped what was the solution or did you learned to live with it?
Best regards,
V
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- Posts: 466
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:01 pm
- I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
- In: Reflex Silver
- With a: DSG box
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
It is caused by catalyst preheating. However it only does it if the engine temperature (coolant temp) is between 18c and 32c and hasn't recently been started.
It therefore tends to do it on first start during the summer months - and then on occasions when you have driven for a while and let it cool down after a couple of hours - with it being in the above temperature range when you go to start it again.
There is no solution, however it annoyed me so much that, what with being an electronics engineer, i made a device that sat in line with the coolant temperature sensor that changed what the engine ECU would read.
It would measure the temperature, and if it was in the above range it would change the output so that it was either lower or higher than that range - so that the engine never does this stupidly annoying catalyst preheat.
It therefore tends to do it on first start during the summer months - and then on occasions when you have driven for a while and let it cool down after a couple of hours - with it being in the above temperature range when you go to start it again.
There is no solution, however it annoyed me so much that, what with being an electronics engineer, i made a device that sat in line with the coolant temperature sensor that changed what the engine ECU would read.
It would measure the temperature, and if it was in the above range it would change the output so that it was either lower or higher than that range - so that the engine never does this stupidly annoying catalyst preheat.
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
Thank you for the answer.
Ok this is a solution but I was hoping on the ECU program fix to ignore, the in my opinion, a very stupid programming feature of preheating the exhaust in summer and leaving it cold in winter (who needs low emission in winter right ) .
Ok this is a solution but I was hoping on the ECU program fix to ignore, the in my opinion, a very stupid programming feature of preheating the exhaust in summer and leaving it cold in winter (who needs low emission in winter right ) .
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- Posts: 466
- Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:01 pm
- I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
- In: Reflex Silver
- With a: DSG box
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
It is stupid - but I believe it was a fudge by VW to reduce the emissions during testing - as the temperature range it does it in is very similar to the ambient temperature range of the emissions testing laboratories (permissible range of 20-30c during lab testing after the car has been sitting for a good number of hours before testing)
It's the only thing that explains why it only does it between these temperature ranges - you would think it would always do it in cold weather, but nope! - just this range! which so happens to be very similar to the lab test conditions.
It's the only thing that explains why it only does it between these temperature ranges - you would think it would always do it in cold weather, but nope! - just this range! which so happens to be very similar to the lab test conditions.
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
I don't know the emission testing procedures but if there is guideline how to preform it and "warming up" fits with the criteria the shame on someone. Diselgate with a petrol engines :|
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- Posts: 5036
- Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:31 pm
- I drive a: GT 2.0 TDI 170/184
- In: Rising Blue
- With a: Manual box
- Location: S/W Scotland
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
I guess it's a cost saving by doing that way as opposed to fitting a Secondary Air Injection system as fitted to some other engines.
Maybe Blower could sell some of those comparator circuits to "fool" the ECU wrt coolant temp.
Maybe Blower could sell some of those comparator circuits to "fool" the ECU wrt coolant temp.
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
i am still having this problem...only in summer days, can someone tell us how to fool the ECU?
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- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue May 28, 2019 3:53 pm
- I drive a: 1.4 TSI 160
- In: Rising Blue
- With a: Manual box
Re: cold start mis fires on tsi 1.4tsi
Does anyone know if any updates have been released after SW version 1676 (Manual)?
I heard about a new SW version 4209, but I don't know if it's official...
I heard about a new SW version 4209, but I don't know if it's official...