Down shifting in DSG

drawface · Post by **drawface** » Sun May 27, 2012 6:17 pm

Hi all i got a quick question for u guys.
I've been wondering about my dsg wether it's behaving right or not. I'd like to know when you guys drive your DSG in manual mode and entering a corner (say in 3rd gear) while your right foot is on the brake and u downshift the paddle would your gear instantly shift into 2nd? or would it take like a full second to do it? and while it's doing that will it give u a throttle blip sound? cuz my scirocco wouldnt do any of these unless i left foot brake or i kinda awkwardly try to do a heel toe LOL

The reason i'm asking u these questions is becuz i have test drive a couple of porsches pdk and since pdk is pretty much a dsg so i starting to worry if it's normal. Anyway it could and probably is the software.

PS. What does the DSG remap do? would that make it much more sporty?

BIG THANKS

Post by **Kev** » Sun May 27, 2012 7:20 pm

I don't know if this is actually the case or just my mind playing tricks but I find the gear changes are quicker/slower depending on your speed and the amount of throttle/brake application. Certainly upshifts seem slightly more lazy if you're just tootling along but if you're giving it the beans they feel much faster to me.

I don't think it takes a full second though. It does do a little blip I think but that's probably more to do with the fact the revs are slightly high for the gear and you're getting some engine braking going on as you would a lot of the time when you're downchanging.

goatboy · Post by **goatboy** » Mon May 28, 2012 3:11 pm

If your revs will be really high after its shifted I don't think it will shift. (if that makes sense)
Like it won't let you bounce off the rev limiter in manual mode, if you are changing down really early I don't think it will go to protect the engine from hitting the rev limiter.

If you leave your downshift a little later into the braking period does it shift quicker?

voyager · Post by **voyager** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:02 am

This is one reason why I prefer the manual, I prefer to be able to shift up and down when I want, not when the car wants.

Post by **Kev** » Tue May 29, 2012 10:05 am

You can shift when you want to but the car won't let you destroy it. For instance you can't get up to 6th while you're doing 5mph. Likewise you can't change down to 1st when you're doing 60. But then you wouldn't do that in a manual either unless you did it by mistake. All of the changes it allows you to do are well within what you would do in manual driving anyway.

andy_m · Post by **andy_m** » Tue May 29, 2012 7:50 pm

I'm fifty two now, and for all of the time I have been driving, I have never owned an automatic, until now. I was always of the opinion that I prefer to be in control of the car, and so manual gears it had to be.

The only reason I'm driving an auto now is because my left knee (my clutch foot) was badly damaged when a car driver decided he didn't like the idea of me overtaking him on my motorcycle (a very long story indeed, and I'll save that for another day).

My best pal has been a fan of automatics for years, and when I suggested that I was in the market for one, he posed the question, "why haven't you done it sooner?" And when I told him that I was going for an automatic that could be operated manually, like a tiptronic system, he suggested that I would never use it.

I've had my GT for three weeks now, and I have to admit, that my friend was,almost, pretty much right. I say almost, because I still use my little "paddles" to manually take me up the box, if I happen to be in "potter" mode. Or, if I'm in the mood for blasting from a motorway slip, on to the main carriageway, I'll drop it down one or two cogs, rather than wait for the box to respond to my kick down. But I don't do this often, and in the short time that I've owned my GT, I'm quite enjoying the idea of not even thinking of what gear I'm in. Driving has become more of a pleasure again, and that's saying something, with the amount of traffic on the roads nowadays. But that's more of a change in pace for me personally, and I no longer tail gate at ninety in the outside lane. You're more than likely to find me tucking in behind Eddy Stobart and watching my fuel consumption display reaching 40mpg.

Anyway, having spent some time experimenting with my DSG box, with paddle shift (hardly paddles though... more like buttons), I've decided that there is too much of a delay between selecting a gear, and the engagement of that gear. Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations, but I would have preferred that there be virtually no delay at all, otherwise, what is the point?

If you feel that I require putting right on this subject, then I'm all ears, and eager to learn

Post by **Kev** » Tue May 29, 2012 8:50 pm

Wikipedia (font of all knowledge), says a manual change is 0.5-1 second.
DSG changes in 8ms.

However, I think it also depends on if you're doing a change that it's 'expecting'. Also double changes will take longer. Either way it's still quicker than a manual box.

It does take time to get used to how it works but apart from the odd leisurely change when the car is off throttle or just tootling I think the changes seem quick enough to me.

andy_m · Post by **andy_m** » Tue May 29, 2012 8:59 pm

Bottom line, then, is I've still got a bit to learn about my new acquisition.

0.008 seconds is, obviously very fast. It just seems slower to me when I flick the gear stick over to the left and start using the "paddles" to shift through the box.

I'll try again, during my commute to work, and see how I get on. I must be missing something, for sure

RW1 · Post by **RW1** » Tue May 29, 2012 9:02 pm

The gear change may be that time but the DSG has to think about it.

7 speed is the same with delays from the paddles, sometimes far too long.

C.

mat · Post by **mat** » Tue May 29, 2012 10:29 pm

andy_m wrote:Bottom line, then, is I've still got a bit to learn about my new acquisition.

0.008 seconds is, obviously very fast. It just seems slower to me when I flick the gear stick over to the left and start using the "paddles" to shift through the box.

I'll try again, during my commute to work, and see how I get on. I must be missing something, for sure

you shouldn't need to touch the gear stick - just use the paddles..... The display will change from D1/2/3/4/5/6 to a single number.

After a while, it goes back to D.

Quite useful to downshift temporarily!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

andy_m · Post by **andy_m** » Wed May 30, 2012 6:22 am

mat wrote:you shouldn't need to touch the gear stick - just use the paddles...

Indeed

I would only do that to "lock" it in manual mode. Not that it is a permanent lock, as such, but it will stick in third, say, and rev the testes off it, rather than change up, if you do that. Rev too high though, and the EMS takes over and will change up a gear. That's what I'm finding anyway. Also, if you kick down, this also overrides the "tiptronic" mode. I've just noticed that, when "kicking down," there is a slight, but definite click as the accelerator pedal passes a certain limit, towards the end of its travel.

I drove to work this morning, using the steering wheel buttons to change gear, while the stick was shoved over to the left. There is definitely a delay, although you do get used to it. To be honest, I will probably not use that mode again, and just use the steering wheel buttons to change up/down, when I feel I need too.

Up to now, each day I am learning something new about my roc

(and now look what I've done... I've called it a "roc!"

Billc · Post by **Billc** » Wed May 30, 2012 7:20 am

Andy_m, I know exactly what you mean about the apparent delay when shifting. I'm also a convert to DSG at the age of 52 after having always had manuals and I adore this box. There is a delay but when I thought about it it's pretty obvious that it's vastly quicker than shifting down a manual box, VASTLY quicker!

I do find a lesser delay flicking a paddle (yes, I have paddles not buttons, I added paddle extensions) than using the throttle for kick-down, it's probably a micro second difference though. I suspect it's that our ultra-clever boxes expecting to upchange next and have preselected the next higher gear when we tell it that we actually want to go down the box so it has to deselct that one and select another gear before changing?

Post by **Kev** » Wed May 30, 2012 7:44 am

mat wrote:After a while, it goes back to D.

Or you can hold the right paddle in for about 3s and it switches back.

andy_m · Post by **andy_m** » Wed May 30, 2012 8:19 am

Bill, on reading your post, I realise that what you say is correct, and to manually change gear, the old fashioned way, clutch down, select gear, clutch up, then yes, even with the delay, it is still faster.

When you say you added "paddle extensions," could you please elaborate?

One other think, that is more than likely clouding my perception here... I am an avid Gran Turismo 5 "driver," and invariably, I use the "flappy paddles" on my posh G27 steering wheel. As you can probably imagine, the gear change is instantaneous, because it is "only a game."

drawface · Post by **drawface** » Wed May 30, 2012 2:49 pm

andy_m wrote:Bill, on reading your post, I realise that what you say is correct, and to manually change gear, the old fashioned way, clutch down, select gear, clutch up, then yes, even with the delay, it is still faster.

When you say you added "paddle extensions," could you please elaborate?

One other think, that is more than likely clouding my perception here... I am an avid Gran Turismo 5 "driver," and invariably, I use the "flappy paddles" on my posh G27 steering wheel. As you can probably imagine, the gear change is instantaneous, because it is "only a game."

lol yes i wish my roc changes gear like gt5 !
anyway thanks alot to all of you for making it clearer.

Post by **Kev** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:50 pm

andy_m wrote:When you say you added "paddle extensions," could you please elaborate?

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... =38&t=8132" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Billc · Post by **Billc** » Wed May 30, 2012 5:51 pm

Them's the ones Kev, well found sir! I knew it was on here and hadn't yet found it.

andy_m · Post by **andy_m** » Wed May 30, 2012 7:55 pm

Thanks Kev, and Bill. I've had a look at that topic. I'm not sure about them to be honest. I think I would have to see them in the flesh, so to speak.

mike-p · Post by **mike-p** » Wed May 30, 2012 8:11 pm

And they're still in daily use!

Billc · Post by **Billc** » Thu May 31, 2012 6:36 am

andy_m wrote:Thanks Kev, and Bill. I've had a look at that topic. I'm not sure about them to be honest. I think I would have to see them in the flesh, so to speak.

Whereabouts are you Andy? You may be within striking distance of one of us with these extensions so you can have a look.

Btw, I went for these because they're quick and easy to fit (+ mikep's recommendation of course). There are others available from people like Oettinger that completely replace the switches but you need to dismantle the steering wheel to fit them and that's not a task I was prepared to undertake! For me and my small hands they completely transformed my Scirocco, love 'em

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