Help 1.4 tsi 160 or 2.0 TD 140??

[garbus]

Hi guys, just joined the forum. Have test driven both.
my local dealer has a great offer on the tsi which comes with sunroof, parking sensors, interlagos. Am part exchanging my 5 year old Golf Gt TD140 and not sure what to go for. I do approx 13k miles a year. Love the acceleration on diesel for motorway overtaking so really torn between the two. He has a more expensive GT TD with leather and Luganos again with a good deal.
Was really suprised by the 1.4 which I guess will still be reasonable to run but reports on the 140 diesel suggest the petrol is the better car.

What are your views or experiences?

[trix]

Hi Garbus

personally I would say the 1.4TSi (beign extremely happy with my beastie) but having heard of supply problems on the 1.4 engine unit i'd say the 140TDi or look at your budget/running costs & see about the 170TDi

S

[malachi]

After nearly three years with my Motability Mini Cooper, it's time to choose my next car. I've settled on having a Scirocco but need some sage advice.

I drove a 2.0 TD GT 140 today and was greatly impressed. I also tried a Golf with the 1.4 TSi 160 engine. However, after I went 108 miles to try a used 1.4 TSI 160 Scirocco, all I got was a 3 mile 'test drive' in a car with practically no fuel on board. Dammit.

On paper, if Top Gear is to be believed, there's not a vast difference in performance. 158 vs 138 bhp, 8.0 vs 9.3 secs 0-60. But the TD has 236 lb/ft torque while the TSI boasts 177.02. The TSI has a combined mpg of 43...no data except for the Bluemotion TD, which does 51 mpg.

So, is the TSI a total screamer or is it as sharp as it is silky? I've never been a diesel fan but was impressed with the TD, particularly its mid-range poke (I'm assuming it wasn't actually a 170)...I can find out.

The prices are fairly similar, given the Motability TSI is the 'no trim' version. I'd have to add some bits and bobs to cope with my health/mobility issues, which is what puts the prices so close.

Any advice gratefully appreciated. Ideally, I'd like to find a TSI in Cumbria but there's no dice at other outlets - they like their diesels in this neck of the woods!

[RW1]

I drove the 140PS back to back with a 160PS just after I ordered. The 160PS had the edge but not the economy. 160PS is smooth and quiet in applying its power and even at 6,500 rpm is still sweet. Not a screamer at all, far from it. And mine is more like 7.5 seconds 0 - 62 when measured on the diagnostics.

C.

[trix]

D
You said you weren't a diesel lover! What happened

S

[jameswh]

I've been running my BM GT140 TD for 12 months now and find the performance excellent, especially the mid-range acceleration. The fuel economy is superb - I get well over 45 mpg on a shortish mixed run. My one concern had been the response of the stop-start but you very quickly get the knack of anticipating traffic light changes and the engine re-starts in the time lapse between moving your foot from the brake to the clutch. I've just had my tax renewal notice fo £95 for 12 months. If you are planning to keep your car for a relatively long time I thing there is no contest. Reliability of the VW diesel engines is excellent - I previously ran a Passat 130 Tdi for 9 years and there was not a single engine related problem in that time and it was still on its original battery (all the more impressive as I generally did short journeys). From reading posts here and elsewhere (Which reports) the complex highly stressed smaller petrol engines must be more likely to have reliability issues in the long run and this will in turn have an impact on second-hand prices and desirability

[gibbsy]

If your getting a Motability car then wouldn't it be better with the DSG box? I test drove a Scirocco 160 with the DSG and a Golf 140 DSG and thought that the diesel suited the auto box better, not so manic. If you want power and performance then the 170 DSG is the way forward. With 12k now on the clock mine seems very quick indeed.

[malachi]

D
You said you weren't a diesel lover! What happened

S

Well, you asked! My diesel history stems from tractors, the awful diesel Land Rover and still worse, mid 80s non-turbo diesel cars (Astra, Escort, Sierra). I also test drove motorhomes for magazines. These were based on turbodiesel chassis cabs - better than conventionally aspirated but still grumbly and sluggish-ish.

Yesterday was a revelation. The car (it is a 140, I checked) was a bit noisier than a petrol version but it was sprightly, with lots of mid range grunt. And it was refined - at times, I was thinking 'this can't be a diesel'.

Motability only to the TSI 160 in 'no trim' form, while the GT diesel is available. I need some of the GT spec stuff as a matter of necessity, and I admit the relative economy is tempting.

I ask if the TSI 160 is a screamer because I had a Celica 190, which developed its extra 50 bhp at 6,250 rpm. Of course, it had no blower or turbo - no brakes either.

So, I'm in a bit of a quandary - I really need to drive a 160. But I can still do the sums and see what's best.

BTW, the DSG option is costly - just as well I prefer a manual anyway. But thanks for the info people, it's very valuable.

[rococco]

Owning the 160PS TSI I can say it's an excellent engine; It is lively, responsive, and sounds great. It is however thirsty, not when compared to other petrol engines of similar output, but relative to diesel engines. Real-world economy is around 28.5mpg combined, though I am sure the TDI models achieve similarly less than advertised economy as well.

Consider the diesel if fuel economy is a relative priority for you. Personally I miss it when on the motorway but love the petrol engine everywhere else. But I will say that the Scirocco deserves a minimum amount of power, and I'd be concerned that the 140PS might struggle to provide it in all situations. IMO, your comparison should be between the 160PS TSI and the 170PS TDI. I don't see either of those disappointing you.

[malachi]

Sadly, the 170PS TDI isn't a Motability option.

[ZephyR]

All depends upon you and your driving habits. If you are doing mainly short urban journeys then I would avoid all VAG diesels because of issues with their particulate filters.
The 1.4 TSi 160 with is supercharger gives you smooth running at slower speeds and reasonable economy while the turbo will give you a good response on the open road.
Torque and mpg will not match the 140 diesel which might make more sense with hight annual mileages.

[malachi]

All depends upon you and your driving habits. If you are doing mainly short urban journeys then I would avoid all VAG diesels because of issues with their particulate filters.
The 1.4 TSi 160 with is supercharger gives you smooth running at slower speeds and reasonable economy while the turbo will give you a good response on the open road.
Torque and mpg will not match the 140 diesel which might make more sense with hight annual mileages.

I’d heard of the DPF thing. I do a low annual mileage (5,000 per year in the Mini) and a lot of short journeys. However, I’d also heard that a blast will clear the DPF. Anyone had problems of this nature?

[RW1]

I do a low annual mileage (5,000 per year in the Mini) and a lot of short journeys.

Your not in the mileage level to make it worthwhile for a diesel.
I do 5,000 miles a year roughly. Mainly 5 mile journey twice a day in urban 30mph limits. Get 35mpg which against my old Mk2 Scirocco injection with 112bhp at 38mpg which makes the 160PS look good.

C.

[malachi]

Ok, so here are the sums...

1.4 TSI 160 (no trim)

Advance Price £ 1099 (Motability)
Dual Aircon £450.00
Elec Lumbar £265.00
Elec Mirrors £140.00
Park Beeps £370.00
Total £2324.00

2.0 TDI GT

Advance Price £1999.00
Elec Lumbar £265.00
Elec Mirrors £140.00
Park Beeps £370.00
Total £2774.00

It looks like a no-brainer at first glance but the TSI here obviously hasn't got the full GT spec (no front fogs, no side window tints, 17" wheels not 18s.

The 12-way electrically adjustable seats are the oddity. Quoting directly from the VW price list, effective 02/04/12 on, it says on page 6..

Additional items of equipment GT (over Scirocco)

Function
– 2Zone electronic climate control with automatic
air recirculation
– ACC (Adaptive Chassis Control), variable suspension settings –
choice of three settings: Normal, Comfort and Sport
– Electrically-adjustable driver’s and front passenger’s
seat lumbar support
– Front fog lights (not R models)
– Heated front seats


But on page 9, it lists the electrically adjustable driver's seat as a £265 option on all models, while seat heating is only there as part of the £380
'Winter Pack', which also includes heated screenwash jets, a low wash fluid level warning light and headlamp washers. A typo methinks, I'll check with the dealer.

[RW1]

But on page 9, it lists the electrically adjustable driver's seat as a £265 option on all models,

Not the same option. There is electrically fully adjustable driver's seat option, not just lumbar back rest... up/down, forwards/rearwards, etc. ie. 12 way. More electrical switch levers on the base cover side plastic. Look on page 34 of the car brochure. That is what page 9 is describing.

C.

[malachi]

But on page 9, it lists the electrically adjustable driver's seat as a £265 option on all models,

Not the same option. There is fully adjustable driver's seat option, not just lumbar back rest... up/down, forwards/rearwards, etc. ie. 12 way. More electrical switch levers on the base cover side plastic. Look on page 34 of the car brochure. That is what page 9 is describing.

C.

I see, thanks So what is the GT over and above Scirocco bit all about? I assume the one I drove was a Bluemotion car (it had stop/start) but it had no adjustable lumbar and the seat up/down and fore/aft were manual. I didn't see seat heater switches either.

I don't care if the adjustments are manual - I use the lowest seat height and hardest lumbar setting and it stays there. I do, however, need to additional lumbar support.
Please excuse my being pedantic I came unstuck when ordering the Min - the demo had stuff I was led to believe was to be on mine but wasn't.

[trix]

the 140TDi (bluemotion) engine comes in base Scirocco spec trim level (non GT) or the GT trim level
the 1.4 only comes in the base spec and the 2.0TSi & 170TDi only come in the GT spec

[malachi]

Gottit! Thanks

[malachi]

Interesting news

It seems that on the diesel GT (140), VW have upped the spec without the Motability advance payment having
changed.

So, the following are standard...

Heated mirrors
Electric lumbar support (not 12-way)
Heated seats
Leather trim

Could this possibly be something going right at last?

To get the GT spec means choosing diesel - I think I can live with that. Plus, it's an excuse for a weekly thrash to keep the DPF happy