Poor Gear Change.

[sweeney782]

I have a a new 170 GT TDI. The gear change from first to second particularly first thing in the morning is very poor, ie/ stiff and clonks when engaging, has anyone else found this on there manual gear box ? Thanks for any advice, John.

[gibbsy]

If it's anything like my present Volvo V50 (only until Thursday morning ) engaging first gear can be a little demanding until the oil in the box has warmed up enough. The V50 has a sweet little box. Won't be able to judge on the 170 as I'm getting a DSG.

[Deft]

I always find 5th a bit rougher than the other gears to be honest.

[JakeH]

I have a a new 170 GT TDI. The gear change from first to second particularly first thing in the morning is very poor, ie/ stiff and clonks when engaging, has anyone else found this on there manual gear box ? Thanks for any advice, John.

Just found this post.

sweeny, not too sure if I've got the same thing but I've had what I can only describe as a 'clunk' when changing gear for quite a while now. It's definitely worse when the car is cold after standing over night or all day (especially cold winter mornings !) but seems to ease off after driving for a minute or two.

It never did this from new but just started to notice it after about 1 yr of ownership.

I've had it back to the dealers twice and was told both times that they coulnd't find anything wrong with it whatsoever. I wasn't happy with this as it's a real noticeable 'clunking' sound when changing gear so I took it to a different VW dealers for a second opinion and they said exactly the same thing - they couldn't find any problems - even after coming with me for a quick drive and having a listen - said it's probably the oil slowly getting around the gear box. The guy said he's heard it on other VWs. I felt like I was just moaning abut nothing but it's still there, not as noticable at the moment due to the warmer weather but definately still there, and I'm not the sort of person to hear a slight noise and start panicking either. Not looking forward to the colder weather.

I've had a good search around the net but can't seem to find any answers as to what it could be.

[sweeney782]

Hi Jake, yes sadly it is a bad clonk as the sycncro is obviously not working when trying to go to second gear first thing in the morning. I have tried numerous permutations and with 45 years driving experience, I know how to change gear. I also own a Honda S2000 and that is how it should change. This is spoiling the Scirocco, I warn any prospective owner to try before you buy. What a pity!

[JakeH]

Hi Jake, yes sadly it is a bad clonk as the sycncro is obviously not working when trying to go to second gear first thing in the morning. I have tried numerous permutations and with 45 years driving experience, I know how to change gear. I also own a Honda S2000 and that is how it should change. This is spoiling the Scirocco, I warn any prospective owner to try before you buy. What a pity!

Ah well. I'll keep searching and let you know if I get any further.

Best of luck.

[maisbitt]

Must be a fault rather than a design flaw - mine is perfect from cold, it changes smoothly in every gear as was my Roc before that and my previous 2 Golfs. I once had an issue with a Polo, but one of the linkage cables was incorrectly set.

[RoccoScientist]

The manual box in my Scirocco is not exactly the same as yours, but it still doesn't work 100% smoothly. Sometimes changing from neutral to the 1st gear is a real effort and I have to either just force the gear in or change first to 2nd gear and then to 1st. This happened more often when the car was new and nowadays I rarely (yet sometimes) have troubles. Since your car is new, I'd give it a chance to "loosen up" a bit and see if the situation improves.

[sweeney782]

Thanks for that. However, if a linkage was incorrectly set,there would be a problem on every change. This is not the case,It is terrible on first changes each morning. When it reaches normal temperature it is ok but not excellent. Thanks again, John.

[belon-kirill]

Hi to everyone! I have scirocco 2009, 1.4 tsi, when I change to the second gear, I have similar noise what I think sweeney782 has. I've heard that I have to change whole gear box. Maybe there is another solution for that. Who has faced that problem? Can anyone tell me what to do?

[JakeH]

Hi to everyone! I have scirocco 2009, 1.4 tsi, when I change to the second gear, I have similar noise what I think sweeney782 has. I've heard that I have to change whole gear box. Maybe there is another solution for that. Who has faced that problem? Can anyone tell me what to do?

Change the whole gear box???

Maybe that would explain why my dealers 'couldn't find a problem' with mine !

I wouldn't be surprised if they just had a quick look underneath and didn't spot anything obvious so said they couldn't find anything !

[RW1]

VW's have for a long time had problems with gearboxes being difficult, particularly entering 2nd gear. It usually caused by the gear oil grade and synchromesh tolerances when they are cold. But once warmed up, the box is normal. The old trick was to change out the SAE EP80W mineral oil to fully synthetic G50 75w90 or its higher temperature version - G52 75w90 gear oil.

I've just checked through the oils the gearbox is filled with and they are the best synthetic grade that can be used, ie G52 variants.

The synchromesh will be tight on 2nd gear with cold oil. The oil grade is fully suynthetic 75w90 as fitted. It could be changed to 75w80 but I'm not sure VW sell/use this grade.

Only changing the gearbox will cure under warranty, and therefore a change of tolerances. Dealers don't want to strip a gearbox and the rebuild as it includes special tooling and re-shimming.

It will not go away with time. Your only options (warranty preserved) are to live with it or complain hard for a replacement.

C.

[sweeney782]

Hi RW1, yes I agree with all you have said but the thought of of some young apprentice pulling my new car to pieces and perhaps the fault being in the replacement gearbox also is such a gamble. Guess I will just have to live with it, but thank you for your excellent reply. John.

[belon-kirill]

I live in Greece, Athens. And there are a lot of scirocco, I went to dealer, they said to me that there are 2 the same problems with the gear box, and I am 3rd, so, if 2 more cars come with the same problem. The dealer will send all gear boxes to Germany as factory defect and our gear boxes will be changed for free.

[sweeney782]

I have to say,that this subject of crap 2nd gear change when cold, seems to be a common VW characteristic from comments I have received from so many people since this discussion opened. My main reason for not buying DSG was, as a long term vision of ownership, I have heard of so many issues of problems with reliability, false neutrals and revving engines etc, I played safe with the manual box. So why is it so difficult for VW to get this gear change the pleasure it is supposed to be?

[dimexi]

Hi guys,
I was just reading RW1's "new buyer's guide" in the welcome forum and I found it extremely helpful.

One point jumped out at me in the transmissions "check" section, and it was this statement:
"The 6 speed manual transmissions need to checked out for stiff 2nd gear, particularly when the gear oil is cold. Gearbox replacement rectifies this."

I bought my 'roc 2nd hand last November, it has 6 months left on the warranty. I noticed the aforementioned problem pretty much 1 month after driving it, probably due to the temperature dropping dramatically during that month.

I get a resistance (stiff change), when going from 1st - 2nd and 2nd - 3rd during cold starts (first thing in the morning). I worried a bit, then I started to think that this was normal, since I experienced it in my last car (A renault clio GT). However, I did get my old car rectified under warranty, and the gearbox was changed.

I was more reluctant to report this one to VW, because I didn't know what caused it.
Has anyone had this problem? If so, did you report it under warranty? How long did it take to get fixed etc etc.

Thanks for any help

[dimexi]

Thanks for moving the post RW1 - and apologies for not searching for similar problems first.

So question: If the "poor gear change" is caused by gear design tolerances at lower temperatures, doesn't this mean a complete change of gearbox will not alleviate this issue?

I say this because (in my mind), the tolerances on all those gearbox parts will be the same (as long as the part numbers are the same), and changing the gearbox will only lead to the problem reappearing again after a few years.

Except if there is now a different gearbox.

[RW1]

2nd gear (and 1st gear sometimes), I've never known a VW gearbox since Aircooled days in the 1970's when it wasn't stiff. Some markedly more than others. The trick then with a Beetle box as with my Scirocco Mk2's was to change the oil grade. In my Mk2's I always changed it from EP80W to 70w90 fully synthetic G50 oil. Nowadays, VW have done that and it still remains a stiff gear in some manual gearboxes and this is despite the gearbox designs being different over the years.

(The idea of the individual hyper-links in the lower section "detail" of the B.G. guide leads you to a topic where posts can be made. As time goes on, the B.G. keeps itself upto date by member's further posts and developments [Hencce your post being moved into the linked topic here.] The B.G. being effectively a routing hub to loads of topics.)

C.

[dimexi]

Thanks for the info RW1.

Do you think the "stiff" gears will accelerate wear between the gear linkages as time goes on? I ask this because I assume that: from cold, the "fit" is tighter, hence the *stiff* changes in gears. And thinking laterally, this will only accelerate wear. However, I don't know if this wear results in the reduction of the gearbox life.

If it doesn't cause any problems, I am happy to live with it, but make VW aware that I have noted the problem.

[RW1]

Possibly, more so if its a forcing action. The only VW I haven't done the oil trick to is the Corrado. Just gently ease it into 2nd gear. Cable selection is still like new after 46,000 miles. I never force the lever into gear so as not to strain the cables.

As far as I know its the 2nd gear synchromesh of the gear and its not really had issues with wearing. And it doesn't really get better quickly.

Yes report it as you've written. Its not an issue on VW's radar.

C.