New or 12-18 months old Roc ?

[simon88]

Hello

I'm in the process of buyng my first Scircco, there are so many options i'm not sure what to do. My main dilemma is whethere to go brand new - GT / dark oak brown or buy a second hand Roc with low mileage. I have seen this car below, what do people think of this deal ? Every time i mention about buying a new car everyone goes up in arms saying that as soon as you drive it away you lose 2-3 grand !!

What is everyones views on this ?

Thanks

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/used/search ... eight@2185" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[mordred1973]

hey Simon, the link is just taking me to the search page on VW.co.uk not to a specific car......

[bleedsoff]

Well you only lose 2-3 grand if you decide to sell it straight away. If your going to keep it then I would not worry about that problem.

Really depends what you want, financial situation and end deal. If you want specific options etc then prob bet is a new one as a 2nd hand one with your exact requirements maybe difficult to find. But if your not to picky on specific options like colour/leather etc then 2nd hand could save you a few grand if you find a good car. Also you willing to wait a bit for one or do you need it right away? Don't think anyone can really tell you want to do its really down to personal situation and choice.

I bought brand new as I found finance deals were better on new cars as they came with better promotions plus there is nothing like picking up your brand new shiny car from the showroom knowing no one else has driven it!

[simon88]

I think with my job situation i may be moving countries in 2-3 years. The only things i 'need' is the bluetooth phone kit i suppose and due to long journeys i think the GT and leather interior would fit the bill !

The ex demo care for sale is : £21,490

Registration:FL60
registered:Sep 2010
Est. availability:Available nowDistance:
Colour:Sumatra
Interior colour:BlackInterior material:Vienna Leather
Mileage:3,500 miles *
Fuel type:Diesel
Transmission:ManualMpg:55.40 mpgCO2:134 g/km
Child seat capacity:N/A
No of doors: 3

[sciroccorocket]

I only lost 3k in 26 months

[goatboy]

I'm having a similar new vs used dilema.
Doesn't sound like you are too fussy over spec and there are plenty of low mileage preloved cars out there. You will definately save a few grand by going used, so I think thats what I will be doing (you'll get the car quicker too most likely). You won't have the hassle of running it in either and the engine will have already loosened up some....

However there is something very nice about having a new car!

[maisbitt]

Due to it's great residuals, you should be able to get a brand new one for almost the same price as a 1 year old one.

If you have nothing to part ex, you should be aiming to save £2200 on list price by getting a localish dealer to get somewhere near price matching "uknewcars" or "autobytel" prices. If not, order through "uknewcars" etc.

Times are tough out there for car sales right now - plenty of dealers have more allocation than sales.

[ScottyUK]

Finance was what did it for me a new car on PCP with VW finance was 7.8%, the dealer was offering 10.5%, this made a similar spec machine the same monthly cost , also VW were throwing in 3 years servicing the dealer wasn't.

[GeoffT]

Hi Simon,

Providing you get a good discount, I would buy new if you can. You get exactly what you want, no history to worry about and the full 3 year warranty. I used dealdrivers.co.uk and saved over £2000 off list price. I did go to the local dealer to see if they would match it, but they couldn't get close enough. The best they could offer was £1300 off list. They actually had a used Roc of nearly identical spec on their forecourt for more than I was going to pay new! So I went through dealdrivers and everything went like clockwork. They put me in touch with Alan Day VW in London, who did all the paperwork and delivered to the car to my door without any extra charge (and I am in Devon) 10 days earlier than the original estimated date. I would not hesitate to recommend them. I have no connection with either company other than being a satisfied customer.

[Gilez]

I havent looked into it, but an 18 month old Roc would have come into the 15% VAT category, compared to a new car at 20%. The dealers should be considering this in their 2nd hand prices, so see what they say if you havent mentioned it when haggling. For my spec car, at the price i paid, that would be a difference of over £1,000 so check the 2nd hand price reflects that as you are not comparing like for like.

[maisbitt]

Gilez: The 15% VAT is irrelevant. When VAT went up, all the desirable/tidy used cars went up in value too, the dealers didn't let the new:used price gap open up, they saw it as a way to get more money fro their wares. VAT is only paid once on a car, when it is new, so dealers couldn't care what VAT rate is right now when selling a used car. Used car prices didn't crash when VAT dropped from 17.5% to 15%.

I bought my 1st Roc at 15% VAT, probably one of the main reasons it only lost £4k when I part exed it at 2 years old, because when VAT went up, so did the used price to maintain the used:new gap in pricing. Had VAT stayed at 15% for the new one, i'd have probably got a grand less for my part ex.

Comparing a car at 12 months old to a new one, i'd get a new one every time, with the right discount on new, the price difference between new and nearly new is coppers. You find with most of these brokers that your sale is done via the fleet sales arm of a designated dealership that the broker is affiliated with, for me and a preious Golf bought through UKNEWCARS, the sale went through Lookers of Burnley.

[talgti2]

A new one is nice but very expensive and a easy way to throw away cash ( I have done it many times) I bought my Roc from a VW dealer with 3k on it and 3 months old it came from a private owner and was in brand new condition ... list price with the extras was over £30 000 I paid £22500 got a excellent part exchange and finance through VW at 7.3% apr (3% flat) with 2 years free service so a no brainer really, the guy who says he lost 3k in 26 months did very very very well !! The guy who had my car lost about 10k in 3 months !!

Tal

[goatboy]

Sounds like you got a great deal tal.
Vw used prices seem a bit steep.

[maisbitt]

talGTI: There's a reason yours was such a bargain and the previous owner lost a fortune - the options are worth next to nowt second-hand, people aren't prepared to pay VWs prices for the options second-hand. I was considering leather seats and my dealer told me it would enhance the cars used value by just £300 after 3 years. £1400 loss on leather! No thanks. Colour might have had something to do with your price too, even though it looks great, Viper is not a popular colour with the dealers - my local one had 2 second hand ones and said he had to discount more than the other colours to shift them. It's a colour that some wouldn't live with every day, even though they do stand out and look good - in a loud way. The previous owner was extremely unfortunate to lose £10k in 3 months, due to lots of options and colour choices, that's not to say you were unwise to buy it - you've got a bargain there, someone else's huge loss was your gain. You could probably run that car for a year and sell it privately for £20k.

My dealer is of the opinion that in general, VW's options lose 70-80% of their value at trade-in time.

You will find that an option laden 1.4TSI(160) loses far more money than a basic 2.0TSI over 3 years, or a non GT 2.0TDI 140 with £2k of options loses considerably more than the basic GT model of the same variant, even though they're about the same price new.

If you want an option-packed car, second hand is probably the way to go for value for money, but if you're looking at pretty much standard spec, an almost new Scirocco can cost about the same money as a new one that has a healthy (8-10%) discount.

If you buy a popular/sensible colour (i'd personally steer clear of red and viper green, purely from a financial perspective, not popular colours with the dealers - something to consider for your future part ex value) and lay off the options, you'll find the Scirocco one of the lowest depreciators in it's class/price bracket from new.

[Gilez]

Gilez: The 15% VAT is irrelevant. When VAT went up, all the desirable/tidy used cars went up in value too, the dealers didn't let the new:used price gap open up, they saw it as a way to get more money fro their wares. VAT is only paid once on a car, when it is new, so dealers couldn't care what VAT rate is right now when selling a used car. Used car prices didn't crash when VAT dropped from 17.5% to 15%.

I wouldnt say the VAT was irrelivant. I was saying there may be an avenue to explore when haggling, as the lower VAT would have been paid on an older car, and therefore the dealer may be willing to drop further. If you dont ask, you dont get. It depends on what the dealer negotiated with the 2nd hand car when he got it - maybe the seller wasnt clued up on the VAT.

I wouldnt expect used car prices to crash, as the VAT would generally have been paid at the point of 1st registration, so the price would have stayed where it was.

[maisbitt]

Gilez: VAT paid a year or 2 ago doesn't affect what it's worth now - the dealers use Glass' guide and bulletins from VW for that. The dealer will have bought the car for X pounds and will want to sell it for X + markup (~15-20% generally). VAT paid won't have been taken into account on the part-ex allowance or purchase price to the seller, it's worth what book says (or the dealers own interpretation, using Glass' as a guide).

A car bought the day before the VAT rise and one bought the day after will be worth the same on the 2nd hand market a year or 2 down the line.

If there's a profit margin, there's room for negotiation on price - depends how far the dealer is prepared to cut into that margin to get it sold, VAT paid at first registration isn't a convincing haggling point for a 2nd hand motor.

Nice car BTW

[Anakin]

I bought a new Rocco R and sold it a year later (Bad Idea...).
Personally I will be buying "nearly new" cars from now on. My TT RS was 7 months old 4500 miles on the clock and £17k off the list price !

[maisbitt]

General rules of new/nearly new car sale:-

1. If you sell almost any car less than 2 years old, you will get shafted. You can't buy a new car, keep it for a year and not take a huge hit. You probably can't even do it on a nearly new one unless you buy privately to cut out the dealer's wedge and drive a hard bargain with the seller.

A nearly new car needs to be appreciably cheaper than a new one for people to not want to buy the new one. If you take a new £25k 2.0TSI and then get rid in a year's time, it'll need to be on the forecourt for no more than £23k, which means the dealer will want to aquire it for £20k to make the required margin. £5k lost in a year.

2. If you load up the car with options you'll get very little back.

Options are very expensive when new, the kind of money that people are unwilling to pay on the used market - never buy these thinking they'll add value later, buy them because the option is something you really want/will use every day.

3. If you get a car that's pushing the price bracket of that class of car it'll lose a lot more than the other models.

On the used market, people are finding that the R isn't worth a huge amount more than a 2.0TSI. At it's new pricepoint it's got a lot of competition with cars that could be seen as more prestigious. The R is a great car, but a fully loaded one at £35k faces a lot of competition from other cars people would be more willing to spend that kind of money on.

The best value used cars are those that are good cars, but depreciate like a stone. The Scirocco is in general a slowly depreciating car, you can change that by buying an R or heavily loading any variant with non essential options.

Anakin's TTRS is a great 2nd hand buy, not such a great buy brand new. The best value in getting a new car is keeping it quite a while. Much as I love VWs, if the Roc depreciated like a stone, i'd be buying nearly new, not new.

[simon88]

GeoffTT - could you give me a little info on how you ordered your car through dealdrivers - website looks a little confussing how i would go about it.

[maisbitt]

Simon: I've used UKNEWCARS previously - easy. Spec up the car on their website and get a price. Phone the number and they'll order it for you, take a small deposit and tell you which dealership you'll be picking it up from and then put you in touch with the dealership's salesperson that'll deal with your order.

Haven't dealt with them for the last few cars, they're no cheaper than I can get at a local dealership with a bit of haggling once you factor in a part-ex, if you have one.

You'll get a great price for the new one, but a not so great one for your part ex. eg broker gives you a £25k car for £22,700 but only gives you £12k for your part ex (and you know it's worth £13k). Local dealership gives you £13k for your part ex, but your new one will cost you £23,700. Same price to change.

Brokers are great if you have no part ex or are willing to sell it on privately.