Which diesel? 140 or 170?

[suli_din]

From what I see I think I'll be more than content with 140 coming from a 1.4 petrol old civic.

If worse comes to worse the option for chipping/remapping is there and a lot cheaper than opting for the 170.

So all in all a win win situation I guess!

[jammyd]

It is really interesting all this,

I will put my opinions for the 170 over the 140 as this,

140 MY2010/2011 is not, "to my knowledge" remappable due to the ECU encryption
140 50mph to 70mph is not what I would hope for, it feels slow and a few times I have pulled out on motorways to get round people and felt the car was lacking the pull
I think I am just disappointed with the 140 having come from the 170CR engine in my previous car.
No Chrome tail pipes and no red i on the back of the 140, surely this alone is worth the 170's premium

[GeoffT]

It is really interesting all this,

I will put my opinions for the 170 over the 140 as this,

140 MY2010/2011 is not, "to my knowledge" remappable due to the ECU encryption
140 50mph to 70mph is not what I would hope for, it feels slow and a few times I have pulled out on motorways to get round people and felt the car was lacking the pull
I think I am just disappointed with the 140 having come from the 170CR engine in my previous car.
No Chrome tail pipes and no red i on the back of the 140, surely this alone is worth the 170's premium

A quick google confirms that Superchips for one have now "cracked" the 2010 onwards ECU encryption. Chrome tail pipes on a diesel means too much cleaning and a red "i" is way too flamboyant and flashy for me!!

[arlurt]

An interesting thread to read through...

I had a 53 plate SEAT Ibiza TDI Sport, with the old 130hp 1.9 TDI PD engine, which I loved. I was a great fan of the big step in torque at about 1800 rpm and the way it would overtake so easily in any gear if you used that part of the rev range. I traded it in with 80,000 on the clock and still doing over 50mpg almost regardless of how you drove it.

I got my first Scirocco, a manual 140 TDI, in January of 2009. I was disappointed with both the power delivery and the economy. OK it's a bigger, heavier car than the Ibiza, and I think the DPF is what's knocking the edge off the economy, but there's no choice, that's what you get.

On paper the Ibiza and the 140 Scirocco are very close, but without the 1.9 TDI's torque step the Scirocco felt slower on the road and really didn't overtake with the confidence of the Ibiza. The Scirocco is also a VERY different driving style to the old 1.9 Ibiza, the VW CR is a diesel you have to rev to get the best out of it, and the 1.9 PD is exactly the oposite.

I changed to a Scirocco GT 170 TDI DSG in February this year. It wasn't just the power delivery of the 1.9 that I missed, but the things that were standard on my Ibiza were missing on my non-GT Scirocco. The 170 was an ex-demo car, and I got a reasonable deal to trade my 20,000 mile 140 (that needed four tyres) for a 3 month old, 3000 mile, GT demonstrator.

The 170 is even more revvy than the 140 was, it's the most petrol-like diesel I've driven. Pushed hard in "Auto" the DSG gearbox takes it to the red line. This does take some getting used in a diesel, and to be honest it's the one thing I don't like about the car, it's too eager to change down and rev. If I'm going to get a move on I use it in "Manual" and change up early. I find it just as fast and better on fuel.

Perhaps the 140 has been improved, mine was an early one. I do prefer the 170 to the 140 that I had, and it's better on fuel, but neither of them feel as fast as the 130 Ibiza, or match its economy.

On balance I think it's what you're used to. In my youth I had a Fiat 128 sport, an X1/9, Renault 5 turbo, a 5 GT Turbo, and then on to modified Fords before fuel prices pushed me in to diesels. I always liked the step in power when the turbo kicked in, or when it came properly "on cam". Modern engines just don't do that. There seems to be a trend to engineer that sort of characteristic out of engines. I think that's a shame really...

[GeoffT]

I do wonder if you had a "bad" 140. Having swapped directly from a Mk IV Golf with a 130PD motor, I find the 140 has noticably better performance throughout. Although it does rev better than the PD, I don't feel I have to rev it to get the performance, so that is why I wonder if yours was not up to spec? I know, from looking at rolling road tests, the 140CR can come from the factory with 150bhp or more. Maybe mine is at the top end of power output and yours was at the lower end?

Also in terms of economy, on my 12 mile cross country run to work, the Golf would typically do 50/51 mpg, my wifes Audi A3 140PD would do 47/48, but the 140CR Roc is already doing 52/53 with only around 1000 miles on the clock. These are all based on the in-car displays which aren't renouned for their accuracy, but I guess the comparison is probably still valid. The Ibiza though is smaller and lighter than any of those, so would be faster and better on fuel. We had a Skoda Fabia vRS for a couple of years, and that did definitely feel faster than the Golf with the same engine. It was a belting little car actually and only cost £11,500 new at the time.

[mike-p]

Revo can remap encrypted ecus, my 170 was encrypted before we remapped it.

[stretts]

II test drove the 140 and the 170. No contest the 170 wins hands down. Feels better and sounds better too the crome pipes look good too.

[GeoffT]

II test drove the 140 and the 170. No contest the 170 wins hands down. Feels better and sounds better too the crome pipes look good too.

I don't think anyone is going to suggest that the std 140 is better than the std 170 It is whether the 170 is worth the nearly £1000 premium over the 140 that is the question.

[mike-p]

II test drove the 140 and the 170. No contest the 170 wins hands down. Feels better and sounds better too the crome pipes look good too.

I don't think anyone is going to suggest that the std 140 is better than the std 170 It is whether the 170 is worth the nearly £1000 premium over the 140 that is the question.

Yes definitely!

[peter.vw]

I will second that thought the 140 disappointing, yes worth the £1000 it’s a better car.

I think ARLURT has done a good write up one of the best I have read on this forum, well done

[GeoffT]

I guess we have got to the point in the discussion that, having paid it, no 170 owner is going to say that the £1000 wasn't worth it. On the other hand 140 owners like me, having decided not to, will say that it wasn't worth paying the extra.

At least VW offer us the choice. And whichever engine you choose, it's still in a great car.

[arlurt]

That's a nice way to round it off Geoff. I've cheated the system a bit by buying an ex-demo 170, so I didn't have to agonise over the extra cost, the 170 GT was all that was on offer.

I did set myself a budget though when I bought the 140, and stuck to it. Maybe if I'd been more flexible then I wouldn't have bought what I later thought to be the "wrong car"? They didn't have a Scirocco TDI 140 demonstrator when I bought mine so I drove the GT TSI, and then a diesel Golf and had to try to put them together in my mind. The sales numpty wasn't sure what the differences were between the GT and Non-GT cars and again they didn't have one for me to look at. He went on about tinted glass, and fog lights, and 18" rims, all of which I could live without.

When the car came I just felt a bit short-changed, performance wasn't "wow" and it was missing the nice touches that I'd liked on their demonstrator. Maybe my car wasn't as lively as most 140s, or maybe it was just the way that the 1.9 had delivered it's power but I became less satisfied with the 140 as time went on, so when the chance to trade up to a GT came, at a price I could afford, I took it.

I think most people on here will agree that the GT does represent good value for money when you look at what you get for your money over the standard car. If I'd had a 140 with Climate Control, Hi-Line Computer and Multifunction Steering Wheel I probably wouldn't have changed my 140 and would be on Geoff's side in this discussion...

[mike-p]

I went from a remapped A3 140 to my 170 Roc, there was no justification required, I wanted a faster car. Simples. The fact I got 3k off was a bonus.

[danz]

Hi, i went to look at a scirocco recently at my local vw, the dealer told me that there is no visual differences between the 140 gt tdi and 170 gt tdi apart from the extra 30 bhp under the boonet and its only 2.0tsi that gets chrome exuast tips and black roof lining according to the latest brochure.. Can any owners confirm this before i decide to order?

[trix]

if you order leather you get a black rooflining, & other visual differences between the 140 & the 170 are the 140 has a red i on the back, umm, try a few key word searches as this has been covered a few times before

S

[danz]

Thanks, what about the chrome exhauast tips... The dealer says neither the gt tdi's have them but then after reading up on it theres some people on here saying that there 170 came with the chrome tips and the 140 tdi's dont! sounds like pot luck if yours come with them or not.. Whats the red "I" all about? didnt they use to put tacky things like that on the golfs in the 90's lol

[Deb]

My colleague has a pewter 140, I've a candy 170 - the only difference (apart from the colour obv) is the chrome tips and the red i. Apart from mine being quicker than hers, sounding better and getting slightly fewer mpg, of course. The 170 I was looking at in the dealer's today had chrome tips too so I reckon you're dealer's a bit of an ignoramus on that front.

I got grey headlining with my non leathered 170 btw.

[danz]

Thanks deb

[boardlord]

Ordered 170 this week, was originally gonna get a 140 and remap it. However.

After going through the finance on Solutions PCP, due to the much higher GFV of the 170 we got the same monthly payments for an extra £316 deposit. Cheaper than a
tuning box.
Secondly if you look at real world values of audi 140/170, Golf 140/170 the residuals are a good chunk higher on the 170's

[DonnyViper]

Hi peeps first post on here and would just like to say hi and add my opinion. I have placed an order with a friend at a Vw garage for a 170 tdi viper. I was going For a 140 until I test drove the 170, it was awesome compared it really was The new cr engine sounds amazing and pulls very well. Yes price wise it is £1000 more but Worth every penny and the mpg isnt that much different from the 140. So as I got a good deal it seemed Daft not going for the 170. My advice test drive both before you buy and I think you'll turn to the 170.

Donnyviper