1.4 FSI vs TDI 170 (Same same but different)

[khiladi]

Hi Guys,
I need a Scirocco! I'm confused between a 1.4 FSI and a TDI 170. Now, I know this topic has been discussed before, but my case is different. As I understand it, the price-difference between the two is much lower in other countries, but in Sweden a TDI is about £6000 more expensive than the FSI.

I drive mostly on the highway, around 20.000 km a year. Based on the above-mentioned, which car would be more suitable for me purely in terms of economy?

Thanks in advance!

[skyblues11]

what is dearer in sweden, petrol or diesel?

[khiladi]

Virtually the same

[bleedsoff]

Well work it out. I don't know how much fuel is in Sweden.

So 20000km is apporx 12500 miles (sorry but in the UK I can only work with miles)

A Diesel doing about 50mpg at worse on a motorway your prob going to use 250 gallons of fuel. A gallon of Diesel in the UK costs £5.52 therefore 20000km in the UK is probably approx £1380 a year.

The petrol doing the same maths. Use 35mpg at best for the 1.4 you use 358 gallons of fuel. A gallon of Petrol in the UK costs £5.22 therefore costs £1869 a year.

SO in the UK saving about £500 a year but don't think there is such a difference in price between the 2. Think its just over £2000. Just use similar figures with costs in your own country and should figure out what is best for you.

P.S someone correct me if my figures are wrong.

[pishpashposh]

should be able to get over 40mpg doing motorway driving using the 1.4 unless you drive exceptionally fast.

i'd say a lot depends on how long you want the car for as over 3 years i reckon the 1.4 will work out cheaper, you need to do a lot of miles to make your money back.

[maisbitt]

How much of that £6000 price difference will you recoup when you sell it on in 3 or 5 years time?

Based purely on fuel savings, it might take you 12 years to get the money back. If that Diesel is worth £4000 more than the 1.4 at 3 years old then theres nothing between them really.

Is the £6000 premium for the TDI purely for the engine, or is the TDI better equipped too? In the UK you can't buy a 1.4TSI in GT trim, but the 170TDI only comes in GT, so some of the price difference in the UK market is due to the GT having around £1500 worth of extra equipment.

When I buy a car and trade it in after 3 years, I consider the cost of ownership not the cost of the car itself, but the depreciation and fuel costs.

If you're thinking in terms of cost, you need to weigh up the (probable) higher depreciation and higher fuel costs of the 1.4TSI vs the higher initial price and lower fuel costs of the TDI.

Money aside, the 170 TDI is a better drive - the latest generation of TDIs sound great when worked, and the 170 TDI will blitz the 1.4TSI once moving (on paper they have comparable 0 - 60 times between the 2 due to the TDI not being able to put all that power down from a standstill). There's so much torque in the 170TDI, it pulls well in every gear.

Had a drive of my mate's 170TDI the other weekend and it is so much better than the 170TDI PD unit that was in my Golf MK5 GT Sport.

You'll find the fuel penalty less harsh on the TDI when you put your foot down too.

The 170 wasn't available when I got my 140, but if I get a Roc again i'll be getting a 170TDI.

In everyday use on mixed roads, you'll probably get 35mpg in the 1.4TSI and about 48mpg in the 170TDI (we're talking sensible driving with putting your foot down a little bit). Pish pash says he averages 40mpg in his TSI but he seems to be in the minority with what all the other TSI drivers are getting, although there are variances between engines - maybe he had the perfect run-in conditions on his car.

Here in the UK the 170TDI is about £2800 more than the 160PS 1.4TSI, but comes with about £1500 worth of extra/upgraded equipment. Some TSI owners won't want everything on the GT spec, but most will want the multifunction steering wheel and interlagos 18" wheels.

For the UK, the 170TDI could be considered a better buy, with £400 annual fuel savings for those that do 10000 miles a year, but only costing £700 more over 3 years in depreciation (expected 52% retained on the 1.4TSI vs 55% retained on the 170TDI according to auto express). Can't comment on retained values/depreciation in Sweden, but here in the UK, despite the 170TDI costing £2800 more upfront, you'll recoup that cost over 3 years of ownership in fuel savings and resale value.

Just waiting for the anti diesel backlash now

[Gilez]

I think the cost side of it has been pretty well covered, but an additional point for me is convenience. I can drive some large distances in a single day, meaning that in my 170 diesel, I dont have to stop and fill up. The same cant be said for petrol engines.

On another note, if it is £6000 different, would it not be a good idea to order from another dealer in a different country in the EU?

[bleedsoff]

They probably will get you if you import the car form another EU country into Sweden. I agree with everything that maisbitt said, well said! I have the 140TDI on order and can not wait!

[maisbitt]

The £6000 cost is probably more to do with local tax than VW being (too) greedy.

The scandinavian countries have huge purchase tax on cars - Denmark's tax almost doubles the price of a new car.

[SeventySix]

Someone order an anti-diesel backlash?

Money aside, the 170 TDI is a better drive - the latest generation of TDIs sound great when worked, and the 170 TDI will blitz the 1.4TSI once moving (on paper they have comparable 0 - 60 times between the 2 due to the TDI not being able to put all that power down from a standstill). There's so much torque in the 170TDI, it pulls well in every gear.

In your opinion!

Personally, I don't think the Scirocco diesel (or any other diesel I've driven - the 3-litre BMW diesel has the same characteristics vs. its petrol equivalent) is anywhere near as involving a drive as a petrol. The diesel may get you from 50 to 80 quicker but when it comes to a spirited drive along country lanes, I don't think anything gives you greater feel or control than a high-revving petrol. Apart from that the extra weight of the diesel engine counts against it on the handling.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't really an anti-diesel backlash - I don't hate them - I think there are some fantastic diesel engines out there - it's just that for me, diesel is all about economical and sometimes rapid cruising whereas petrol is about a more engaging drive.

[khiladi]

Well, I decided to go with the 1.4 FSI after all. The difference in price between the two (£6000) with the diesel not having anything extra is just too much to speak in favour of the diesel. Plus the 1.4 offers a 7-step gear. Not saying that the diesel is a wrong choice, but for me it made more sense. For the price difference, I bought some extra equipment: vienna leather seats, radio 510, 2-zone climatic system, premiumpacket and sportspacket, backsensors and vintertires. Colour? Rising blue.
Will be recieving the car in about 3 months - excited! Thanks to all for the replies.

[Gilez]

They probably will get you if you import the car form another EU country into Sweden. I agree with everything that maisbitt said, well said! I have the 140TDI on order and can not wait!

Sweden is in the EU so they wont. The EU is an open market, so you should be able to buy anything from anywhere in the EU (including a car) without paying anything extra when you take it home, with the exception, I guess, of fees applicable to registering the car in Sweden.

[bleedsoff]

They probably will get you if you import the car form another EU country into Sweden. I agree with everything that maisbitt said, well said! I have the 140TDI on order and can not wait!

Sweden is in the EU so they wont. The EU is an open market, so you should be able to buy anything from anywhere in the EU (including a car) without paying anything extra when you take it home, with the exception, I guess, of fees applicable to registering the car in Sweden.

Well not sure if its import tax but if you live in a country for more than x amount of time, then think your required to register the car in the country then they will charge you a fortune as its been an import.