Handling Problems

[timhigginbotham]

I was wondering if anyone out there has had the same scary moment I've had a couple of times...

Yesterday was the most recent, as I approached a roundabout at a reasonable speed (say 30-40 mph) I had to brake quickly as a chav in his knackered old escort came hairing round the roundabout. The car twitched suddenly which I guess is because I was already beginning to turn so the car was not straight. I think the electronics corrected the car before I could react, but it wasnt a comfortable feeling.

My previous car was an estate which had a longer wheel base and feels more stable. I'm no expert but the shorter wheel base on the Roc seems to make it less stable around corners. Also I had it set on the "comfort" suspension setting - dont know if that makes any difference. Or maybe its because the TDI is front-heavy...?

Any way, has anyone else had similar handling problems? I'm not a crazy driver, but being a bloke the right foot is probably heavier than it should be!

[kurre3]

You may wanna google "lift-off oversteer" and see if that sounds familiar.. ? Lift-off oversteer is tons of fun and I wouldn' tbe suprised if the sciroccos have a lot of it... Good thing nothing happened btw!

[DavidH]

Yeas, if you brake and turn at the same time the car will want to rotate. You've loaded the front and unloaded the rear, making the car rotate, this transfering of weight is how we steer cars when they're going quick.

What you decribed is definately not a handling problem, anyway nothing would have happened, if you leave the ESP on, you can stamp on the ABS and steer all day long, the car has a lot of additional stability under braking (within reason) thanks to the esp system and abs.

[timhigginbotham]

Cheers for ther replies, sounds like thats what's happening. Perhaps I'll get myself down to an airfield Top Gear style & have a play.

[DavidH]

Actually an airfield is a great place to learn to use the electronic systems (esp and abs). ABS is a wonderful thing, most people have no clue just how much braking stability a modern road car has, just how hard you can punch the brake to activate the abs, hold it and steer around a hazard (emergency lane change etc). Commonly accidents happen because people don't take off enough speed early enough to stop in time, when in fact the car is more than capable of pulling up in that distance. In circumstances with no grip on one side of the car, and high grip the other, if you stamp on the ABS the car will still track dead straight. It's worth knowing how to use it, they're never used like this in fast road or track driving, only during an accident avoidance type of situation, which isn't the best circumsatnce to learn what it will and won't do.

[CTRnutter]

Actually an airfield is a great place to learn to use the electronic systems (esp and abs). ABS is a wonderful thing, most people have no clue just how much braking stability a modern road car has, just how hard you can punch the brake to activate the abs, hold it and steer around a hazard (emergency lane change etc). Commonly accidents happen because people don't take off enough speed early enough to stop in time, when in fact the car is more than capable of pulling up in that distance. In circumstances with no grip on one side of the car, and high grip the other, if you stamp on the ABS the car will still track dead straight. It's worth knowing how to use it, they're never used like this in fast road or track driving, only during an accident avoidance type of situation, which isn't the best circumsatnce to learn what it will and won't do.

At the same time it might be worth noting that performing an emergency stop on cold brakes (cracking, fatigue) is a bad idea so make sure you have warmed them up a bit first and also do not pull the handbrake up after the brakes have been given a workout as you will most likely end up with warped discs or the pads might stick to the discs and you'll get shuddering under light braking where the pads will have left deposits on the surface of the discs.

On a side not I'd strongly recommend anybody on here who has purcahsed the Scirocco and has the intention of driving the car quickly, and does not understand why the car looses traction when steering whist under heavy braking to book yourself up on an airfield day, I have used and can thoroughly recommend Car Limits

http://www.carlimits.com/

ESP (Traction Control) Will not stop you from loosing control nor will it break the laws of physics, it scares me how many people are lulled into this false sense of security that TC will come to the rescue, it is an aid to help gain control that does not mean it will gain control, I find TC a nightmare and when pushing the car on track it is firmly switched off.

if you are making progress you should be aware of what is coming up and allow yourself plenty of time to set the car up ready for the corner as soon as you start to turn the wheel you should be off of the brakes and holding a constant speed until it is time to plant your foot again (awd mid bend, FF and FR upon exit). I'm sure most people understand this, but in the wet you will spin the car and hurt yourselfs unless you take care. I am talking from personal experience and I have learnt the hard way, so believe me I am not preaching but purely trying to save some of you the heartache I went through when I binned my pride and joy (Honda S2000) which I might like to add does have a reputation lol

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1 ... =575581744

[DavidH]

Ouch! Lucky boy! If that had been the driver's side....

I've only binned one road car (have damaged a few racing cars in my time though!), when i was a kid, lost it under braking on ice, rolled it and bounced off a tree. ABS/EBD would have prevented that accident altogether actually. I locked the rears braking in a straight line on a patch of ice and was a passenger from there on.

Did put my mums audi through a fence when i was 17 though, had to sneak across the field and past the farmhouse with bumpers hanging off Didn't really want to hang around and explain why there was a large audi shaped hole in the farmer's fence. Glad it was a quattro, a FWD probably wouldn't have driven out of there.

Most damage i ever did in one go was in a formula ford race at Silverstone on the national circuit. First lap, we turned into becketts and couldn't see a thing because of the low sun and a shiny wet track. There's a high curb on the exit, i got squeezed out onto it, beached the bottom of the car on the curb and got spat exit stage right across the pack taking out about six cars. That was definately a handling problem!

[timhigginbotham]

My original posting was trying to identify a tendency of the Roc to get twitchy around corners, seeing if others have experienced the same. I've previously owned a TVR Chimeara and that was similar (and obviously they're well known for being unstable) - but as that was rear-wheel drive it was easier to correct & was more fun in the process.

The only accident I've had was in an XR2 (second model) and that was going around a corner too fast, breaking too late & going through a barbed wire fence into a field. Not something I want to repeat so is probably in the back of my mind. Hence why going to an airfield or some other safe-area is probably a good idea - its good to know a car's limits unless you want to drive like a Nun on a Sunday. Does anyone know of such a place (in the South-east)? The Car Limits thing is a good idea, but the missus spends all my loose change...