Track Day Booked....

[shrink]

Finally decided to get the R up on the track.

Got an evening slot booked at knockhill. Just a nice wee 2 hour session to get a feel for it and the car.

The plan will be to start modifying the car to be a great road car (as it already is) but with a bit more focus on track. My new job means I wont need the car mon-fri so can afford for it to be off the road a bit more, and not quite the perfect all rounder.

Brakes will be one of the first moves, as I suspect the track evening will show up just how chocolate the standard calipers and pads are. Beyond that, probably get the car lowered a little bit, and look at adding the VWR intake to help with top end power and keep intake temps down.

Otherwise, I'll just be enjoying what the car can do on the track.

Any advice from frequent track dayers?

[Cuprabob]

I've had many a mate end up with pebble dashed front end thanks the brakes giving up the ghost going into the hairpin.

Good luck, be safe and enjoy...

[shrink]

I'm used to driving the roc fairly hard and know when the brakes are likely to tell me to quit. Ill take it easy on them and give them time between sessions to cool off.

I've been up to knockhill loads but last time I drove I was in an XKR which had significantly better longevity out on the track from a braking perspective.

The rest I've always been a passenger!

I'll get some photos up when I'm back

[mattyfitz]

Make sure you do a warm up and a cool down lap, will make the tyres/brakes last longer before they fade.
Check the standard fluid levels are all good. Put in the correct tyre pressure!

[shrink]

Had planned that anyway

Just got some supersports, so will take them out this weekend to get them bedded in before track time!

[shrink]

Soaking wet at knockhill (as usual) but the car performed admirably. The conditions meant that speeds were lower and brakes lasted really quite well. Ten laps or so before serious fade started to kick in. Overall the car was brilliant and did me proud!

The Michelin supersports on the front refused to break traction but the bridgestones on the rear kept letting go! So lots of adjustment needed mid corner! That's fun though!

So if I decide to keep the car... New supersports on the rear and a big brake kit are must haves. I felt the chassis, suspension and engine were all working in relatively good balance for a road car on track, no real plans to start messing with any of that yet. But grip and stopping are high priorities.

[Phil]

I'm impressed the brakes held out for you, provides me some confidence in my own! What others mods do you have mate? Remaps, etc?

[shrink]

bear in mind it was wet though, meaning that in general braking was early and gradual and the maximum speeds were far less aggressive than would be the case in the dry.

On a dry track I'd be into "cool down" territory after maybe 5 laps.

As I'd like to make best use of track time, bigger brakes, better cooling and fluid are going to be vital to maintaining braking performance through the sessions.

[xjay1337]

I would be surprised if you didn't cook the engine oil without an oil cooler.

In the dry the stock R brakes can go in 2 or 3 laps depending on the track, fluid condition, pad / disc etc.

I wouldn't even bother doing a trackday without better brakes and new fluid at the very least.

I have 340mm TTS discs with TTRS caliper and PMU pads. OEM fluid. No fade at Donnington or Mallory and I was well up in the faster groups so hardly hanging about. Not that expensive to buy either really.

RE oil temps. After 3 or 4 laps my oil temps are at 120c + which is far too high so moved from 5w40 to 10w50 Millers Nanodrive CFS and getting an oil cooler.
5w30 oil and trackdays do not mix. Far too thin at those pressures and temps

[shrink]

My oil temps were nowhere near that. But then we do not have the same engine.

Also, as i'll mention for about the third time in this thread it was very wet and as such both acceleration, and braking was much tamer than would be the case for a dry day.

I'll be going back up in October, but by then will likely have done something with the brakes.

I take your point re: oil temps, but this is literally the first time i'm hearing that this could be a concern on this vehicle. I've never seen my temps go above 92 degrees, even under the heaviest driving conditions. So I guess I'll just keep an eye on the temps when on the track and if they climb, i'll come back into paddock, open the bonnet and let everything cool down for a bit before going back out.

[Psycho Kirky]

The more the engine gets modded and bhp increases, the higher the average oil temperature will be, i saw 119°C when bedding in big brakes (2.0 tsi, revo stage 3, K04 turbo upgrade).
I have ordered an oil cooler, HEL performance do the ones on Awesome GTI. But if you buy direct from HEL on eBay you save a fair bit of money and you get options lol no brainer.

Sent Via tapatalk

[shrink]

Yeah i'll monitor closely over the next track day and keep an eye on temps, with a view to getting an oil cooler if it looks like its all getting a bit scary.

Brakes wise, I'm still undecided. I'd rather not add massive aftermarket brakes, as I may not keep the car hugely long. I was thinking of getting the vagbremtechnic 340mm discs the HEL braided lines, the project MU pads and replacing my fluid, for a setup that will work on road, look fairly factory, and work for a limited amount of track use (perhaps 3-4 track days a year).

Ultimately, If I can simply sell the Scirocco, I'm looking to buy a car specifically for track work.

[xjay1337]

If you buy the TTRS calipers used then you will easily get your money back come resale time... just sell them separately. They're not that massive... and they are significantly lighter than the hugely heavy R brakes.

I had R brakes on my old 1.9 TDI and they are pants compared to a decent BBK.

I think the PMU pads on stock calipers will be better than nothing imo upgrade to a decent multi piston caliper.

[shrink]

It's a possibility. I'd like the big brakes. But for the price of them, plus potentially looking at an oil cooler (should temps prove to be a problem on the track) then I'd be as well executing my other plan.

I'm potentially looking to buy a caterham 270R as a pure track toy and will just get a fun-Ish run around for the rest of the time.


So I'm in the middle of the dilemma of making the roc track capable, or just getting a proper track car. Suffice to say with 19" rubber and a bbk, the roc is an expensive way to have track fun. Much lower ongoing running costs on the caterham, not only due to smaller brakes and tyres, but due to the light weight, youre just hit punishing things as much.

Watch this space. Next track session October 16th, I'll be in..... Something

[Phil]

It's a possibility. I'd like the big brakes. But for the price of them, plus potentially looking at an oil cooler

In all honesty mate, if you wanna upgrade but not have to sell house and home to do so, invest in some good disks & pads and this will provide the extra confidence you require, especially if not remapped etc.

Although I agree - buy the Caterham haha

[shrink]

It's the two options!

Caterham

Or

Proper BBK

I'm running stage 1 remap

[xjay1337]

Caterham 270R are what, £25k?

Used TTRS calipers - £250
New TTS discs - £150 C hook with Black anti-rust coating
340mm fitting kit (brake lines and carrier adaptors) - £200
Mintex M1144 pads (sort of mid range pad) - £150

Total cost £750 ish give or take a bit - Hardly house and home money. Most of us can afford that in a couple of months of saving.
Then you will have a setup which you can sell for £500+ all day long in a years time if you want.

With 300 or so bhp stock R brakes will melt on a trackday within a couple of laps if you know what you're doing. Trust me.
The pmu pads may help... but I have not seen the price for them for stock calipers. For my TTRS calipers they cost me £370 and that was with discount.

So let's assume they are £250 and new discs are £100, that's basically half the cost of a proper BBK... seems stupid to not make the jump to a much better braking system which also cuts unsprung weight by a substantial amount.

If you want the caterham fine but it's not a financial decision. that is a heart decision.
I ran 2 cars for 3 months (my old Golf GTI and the Rocco) and the double insurance (you can only use NCB on 1 of them) and tax was not fun :-(

[shrink]

Yeah I think you perhaps misunderstand my long term intention.

I'm sure you're as aware as me, that even extensively modified, the scirocco is not a track car, and will always be compromised in that respect. It's hard to make it a sensible every day road car, and also one that can blast the track reliably and safely.

The biggest issue for me is that tracking a Scirrocco R is expensive business. The tyres cost a lot, big brakes will cost a lot, and the additional fluid / servicing needs will cost a lot. It's also thirsty!

Something like a caterham, will not only be more engaging, but also generally more suited to the environment. Plus as a track solution, ultimately cheaper to run.

It's fine saying the cost of brakes is less than the difference between my R and a 270 (i'd go used though, not brand new). But the long term costs and implications of tracking my road car are far greater. Tyres, brakes, fluids, maintenance etc all add up.

Part of it is heart, but a lot of it is head! driving a scirocco on the track isn't good for it, and it's a poor way to treat my every day road car. Better to have a basic road car and get a track machine instead.

[xjay1337]

I do understand

I just think that, the Scirocco is actually a pretty good track car (the chassis is stiff, suspension is good, powerful) but the cost of parts can be more than the cost of parts of smaller vehicles.
But then, the purchase price of those smaller vehicles and often insurance can be a lot more.

As long as the car is well serviced then track work won't really shorten it's life but I would too rather have a Caterham than a Scicocco for track duties

I think you should consider the brakes anyway, even on the road they will make a huge difference to your overall driving.

I put the TTRS kit on mine before I even had a remap let alone my big turbo, at 170bhp the stock 312s were shite IMO.

[shrink]

Thanks mate, I appreciate the advice a lot

I've popped the R up on pistonheads to see if I get any traction.

I've found a few Caterhams that take my fancy, and as a fun weekend / track car, it's likely to be more rewarding.

In my new job, I'll need a car only at weekends, and even then possibly not every weekend. The Scirocco seems like a complete waste of a car for such duties. Better to have a cheap runaround and just have a proper toy.

If things don't pan out, i'll look at:

-BBK
-Oil Cooler
-Change to 10w50 oil (how does this cope in normal daily driving from cold etc?)

Ta