DSG - 2nd Gear Backlash

[MarkH]

Hi all experts and enthusiasts,

I have a 2012 Scirocco R with the 6 speed DSG and I have a concern about the characteristics of the gearbox in one particular scenario.

In normal mode (not sport) and most noticeably in suburban motoring driving I am noticing an excessive amount of slack in second gear. It's difficult to describe but easy to duplicate.
Driving slowly, if I let the car coast and the drive goes progressively down through the gears of its own accord, I get to a point where the car is in second gear. This may happen approaching a suburban street corner or a small round-about.
If I then accelerate (nothing fierce, just start to drive) - there is a significant "blank" spot in the take up before the gearbox takes the load. I'm no mechanic but it feels like backlash and although it's not horrible, it is not what I'd expect.

The DSG is heralded as this amazingly smooth transition gearbox design with next up and next down gears all perfectly in sync to provide seamless gear changes both up and down but my low load shift up into second is more like an old old standard transmission.

In Sport Mode - it is not noticeable. And it's not noticeable from third to forth, forth to fifth etc.

Does anyone else have this feel in their transmission?

I tried to explain it to the VW Service Department but they returned the car saying their was nothing out of order with the gearbox.

Thoughts please.

Regards


Mark

[Jonny]

I have this problem with mine. I had the gearbox reset at a local garage and it has got better. Its not perfect but much better than it was.

I went to my local vw dealer and as its 3 month out of warranty they weren't interested. They tried to blame it on the non genuine intake and h&r springs. Then told me it was remaped when it its.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[moulin12]

I had thought that the '2nd gear lag' issue was tied to the 7-gear dsg box only, and which can also suffer from judder in D1 to D2.

Just received my 1.4 back from the dealers for a dsg software update. The judder appears to have gone (or is very greatly diminished) but, in addition, there's much less lag between D1 and D2. Also, it seems to hold on longer to the gears in D when kicking down, compared to previously. An all round improvement, though have read that for some the judder issue returned due course.

So, worth enquiring whether there's a sw update for the 6-gear box?

Alternatively, perhaps try the supposed reset routine, to see if unit adapts to your driving style?

[skippy]

I had thought that the '2nd gear lag' issue was tied to the 7-gear dsg box only, and which can also suffer from judder in D1 to D2.

Just received my 1.4 back from the dealers for a dsg software update. The judder appears to have gone (or is very greatly diminished) but, in addition, there's much less lag between D1 and D2. Also, it seems to hold on longer to the gears in D when kicking down, compared to previously. An all round improvement, though have read that for some the judder issue returned due course.

So, worth enquiring whether there's a sw update for the 6-gear box?

Alternatively, perhaps try the supposed reset routine, to see if unit adapts to your driving style?

Interesting, we also own a Polo GTI DSG 7 speed which we have had serviced recently. I did complain of lag between 1st and 2nd, it is normally ok but on hills it holds on to 1st for too long. I enquired if there were any software updates to which they replied there are none.

Do you know which software update you had? Of course - it could be that there are different updates dependent on model/engine.

[SMB]

I wonder if this is by design. The gearbox probably thinks you are stopping and pulls in the clutches, then has to engage or 'slip' them slowly to keep it smooth. A sudden engagement would be jerky. If you watch it engages 1st once you have stopped not whilst slowing down , again reducing the drivetrain impact of changing Down to 1st and the resultant engine braking. I find driving in manual mode to be better in this respect as I tend to change down earlier than drive mode and I have more control.

[shshivji]

Hi there!

Mine does exactly the same and so does my mates dsg TT which he has has pretty much from new, so I would say its normal.......

Shak

[eidooo]

I had the same issue before, a DSG reset solved it
http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... 21#p127035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[moulin12]

Do you know which software update you had? Of course - it could be that there are different updates dependent on model/engine.

Expecting a 'vw completely satisfied' follow-up call with the service manager next week, so will enquire, but the following may refer http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=392252. On the other hand, they may have simply performed a reset, as above!

[bitmadmax]

My old Golf was DSG and I experienced this too, but only in the situation you describe when approaching/coasting towards a slow roundabout. The gearbox is maintaining 2nd whilst 1st is probably pre-selected due to slowing down. Then when you suddenly boot it the gearbox needs to get 3rd preselected. It's not desirable behaviour, but it's nothing to worry about either. I think you get used to it eventually

[skippy]

Do you know which software update you had? Of course - it could be that there are different updates dependent on model/engine.

Expecting a 'vw completely satisfied' follow-up call with the service manager next week, so will enquire, but the following may refer http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=392252. On the other hand, they may have simply performed a reset, as above!

Thank you for that. Yes - the software clearly has to be able to cope with thousands of permutations of speed, gradient, engine revs, throttle position and all that kind of stuff. We have a very short steep hill near us with a T junction at the top. The gearbox kicks down to 3rd on this hill (which I often override to 4th), but then you have to come to a stop very quickly at the junction. On start up, (level ground now), the gearbox holds onto 1st for far too long and the engine rpm shoots to over 3,000 rpm before even thinking about changing to 2nd - again override is called for.

Seems that the gearbox does not know how to cope fast enough with this situation, ie blast up the hill - quick stop at the top, then resume. I think bitmadmax is describing a similar issue here. Where possible I often move the shifter to manual on this particular hill and let my brain decide!

[moulin12]

Update 1 of 2. Confirmed from my dealer that it was a DSG update, not simply a reset. They're going to let me have the number, so I'll post this when I have it.

Not sure that the differences in the gear changes are quite as pronounced as I first thought, though the shudder has now very largely disappeared (big, big difference). Just get a small suggestion of it when I put the car under load (e.g. turning on an incline under very slow speed).

[tallmattuk]

My r-line is going in for a service soon - i'll ask for the DSG update though I haven't experienced any problems (but im now going to check it out)

Thanks for this.

[Kev]

I have it too but I tend to agree with a couple of the previous posts.

I think it's expecting you to stop so it's kind of ready to do a down change and then when you accelerate you catch it out a bit and it's flummoxed for a second before it sorts itself out.

[MarkH]

I'm taking my car in on Monday for the VW Team to look at the DSG - I'll see what they say and if there is anythnig interesting I'll let you all know.

[nogara]

I'm taking my car in on Monday for the VW Team to look at the DSG - I'll see what they say and if there is anythnig interesting I'll let you all know.

Can you find out what the release date was for the latest DSG update for an R is please?

[moulin12]

Finally, after much pulling of teeth from the dealer (who is fairness, have been very good all round), Update 2 of 2.

The update codes for the DSG work taken out on the car are as follows:

Software version 9660, Action code 32ea.

Make of that what you will. Again, this was for the low gear juddering on the 7-gear dry box: don't know if the update applies to the 6-gear wet box (I suspect possibly not).

[skippy]

Thank you for the info moulin12, what year is your car please?

[moulin12]

You're welcome. It's a (June) 11 plate.

[skippy]

Thank you again, yes - was interested as our Polo is a 60 (2010) model. That used to have a mild judder on start-up when it was a lot newer, but it is almost non existent now. I reckon ours did have the update although the dealer never seem to tell you these things. I have enquired in the past about pending updates, but they have always told me that there are none.

However - perhaps this particular update only applies to Scirocco's anyway, as there will probably still be differences in operating parameters between DSG 7 speed on Polo, Golf and Scirocco for example to take account of different power outputs, torque and so on.

[moulin12]

I reckon ours did have the update although the dealer never seem to tell you these things. I have enquired in the past about pending updates, but they have always told me that there are none.
.

As you say, almost certain to be model dependent. On the general point about dealers, they do sometimes seem reticent to share information and, also, I sometimes wonder whether a dealer's response to enquiries about TPIs, updates etc depends on the amount of work they have on and how much time can be billed to the work vs actual time to undertake it.

I've two more jobs to bug them with before the warranty expires: one is rough idle (feels like a misfire) - only when warm; the other, the drivers door pull feels as if it needs adjustment in some way.

Any advice from members on the rough idle when warm would be appreciated.