DSG Convert?

[edwheels]

I'd be interested in your own experiences with the Scirocco DSG gearbox. Not problems, but how using it on a day to day basis has made you more proficient with it.

I've had manual cars almost exclusively and thought this level of control was so important to my driving. A few Mazdas (MX5s mainly) pushed this home as they have such good manual shifts - and having perfected heel and toe changes in the last MX5 over the years until it was 2nd nature made this switch difficult.

It was being stuck in London traffic often and a lot of positive talk about DSG that made me consider a DSG Scirocco over a manual one. The test drive gave me a hint of the potential of this gearbox.

For the first couple of weeks I wasn't sure I'd made the right decision. I did miss that control and even using the paddles and I struggled to know which gear I was in and frequently forgot to change up or down at the best time.

A few recent experiences now have started to reverse my thinking.

1) Driving on the motorway in 7th gear, D mode. Need a quick burst of acceleration. A couple of paddle taps and in 5th smoothly and quickly for the burst. The override function is key to whole thing.

2) Dual carriageway - again 7th gear D mode. Tight cornered slip road off and I switch to M and downshift nice and quick, sequentially whilst gently braking, 6,5,4,3 - each one the perfect change and throttle blip - felt good and then in 3 ready to take off as soon as possible as road straightens.

3) M mode, 6th, 40MPH. Need to overtake a tractor - three taps and 3rd is instantly there and accelerating quickly through 3-4-5.

4) Taking it easy in D Mode, the roads get busier and more hazardous. Knock it into S. This, in my mind, I have labelled Safety not Sport... I now have masses more acceleration and de-acceleration over D - i.e. more control.

What I am realising is this is a gearbox that needs to learned and mastered and it is so different to a conventional auto (or manual for that matter). It's actually great fun learning it and I am nowhere near the end of the lesson...

Will my next car be a manual - not sure - it's early days... What tips have you learned using your DSG?

[blower]

Agree that a DSG takes some getting used to, and over time you learn to master it and get it doing what you want....

The 7 speed dry is not as good as the 6 speed wet though, having owned a 6 speed wet before i do miss it.
The primary difference being smoother and faster clutch engagement, which is noticeable in stop start traffic - on the 7 speed it can be a little lurchy altho again you learn to compensate by changing driving style.
The 6 speed would slip the clutch a lot more (because it could being wet), and give you a smoother experience when driving at slow speeds.

That's not to say the 7 speed DSG is bad to drive - i would take it any day over a manual!

[Coxieboy]

Personally, I think it is a horrid device - always too quick to change up, and always too slow to change down. I have had mine a year now, and still cant get used to the way it changes gear, so much so, I think my days with it are nearly over and its time to go back to a manual. I always drive mine in manual around town, and only ever drive it in D on fast A roads, motorways or dual carriage ways, otherwise, it gets so confused about what gear it should be in.

For example, coming off the A1 down a declined slip, braking slightly as I go, it changes from 6 to 5 to 4, then, just as you've got to the right speed for the entering the roundabout, it decides to change back into 5th, and this is a 35 mph - WTF ? So, I press the accelerator a little harder, it hesitates, and then changes down 2 gears into 3rd, revs its nuts off for a second, and then changes back into 4th......why not just stay in 4th.....???? Arghhhhhhh.

I have tried so many different ways to drive it, and unless its in manual, I really don't like it. I actually get better MPG driving it in manual, than in D - how's that possible ??

[Billc]

The Roc was my first non-manual (I hate to say auto because it isn't) and I have completely fallen in love with it. Unless I'm out to have fun I don't often find myself using the paddles to override because, with practice, you can choose the gear you want and the timing of the changes with your right foot. I find it superbly controllable.

Ref your last question, I had the same experience to start with because at first I tended to be heavier footed with it. The more we got used to each other my mpg's improved.

[Roy_01]

You can change the shift rpm's by a tuner, i have done it on mine.
Very happy now with the behaviour. The standard programm is just stupid in d-mode and s-mode.

[Coxieboy]

Hi Roy_01, I think we've had this discussion before. The problem is, I can't find anyone in the UK that can do it !!

[mackie01]

Hi Roy_01, I think we've had this discussion before. The problem is, I can't find anyone in the UK that can do it !!

I've had a dsg remap also, done by Ecotune in Glasgow

[blower]

Autograph cars (near preston) should also be able to do it - I will be getting an engine and gearbox tune from them later this year.

[CandyCupcake]

I've always hated automatics, never understand why anyone would want one. I purely chose the DSG for my R because of the miniscule difference in 0-60 times... Best decision ever! I test drove a DSG Golf R, as the dealer didn't have a DSG Scirocco available, to make sure I would be happy with the DSG and I am, I love it! I've only found one niggle which is its sometimes in too high a gear when going up hill, but it's no biggy and can be rectified. I've even converted my Mum to wanting a DSG now. I have the 6 speed one x

[cloud11]

DSG is great when it works, yet I've had a few all with problems...

My first DSG was in a 2009 mk6 GTD, that was great, always smooth engagement but it felt like the dual mass flywheel had too much slack.

second DSG in a mk6 GTI which I still have, when cold it lurches forwards, until gearbox is warm? no idea why tbh... but once warm runs like a dream

3rd DSG was a 7 speed unit in a 1.4tsi A3, absolute RUBBISH, the clutch judders and the downshifts judder, and all sorts, driving it in traffic is the worst experiance i've had in a car, people comment on how juddery and lurchy it is... maybe it's broken, and maybe it was because it's an early 2010 model of the 7 speed but I hate it, worst car i've bought, which is why Its for sale now :')

4th DSG, Scirocco 2.0 tdi 140, the gearbox is hard shifting from 3rd to second and makes a horrible noise going from 2nd to 1st. the car has a weird rattle from the flywheel area after putting a brand new one in last week!

I used to be a huge fan of DSG when I got the GTD but now I want a manual again, because of all the problems! all my cars were under 70k and fully serviced, unacceptable that 3 out of 4 cars have issues, VW are mad for making a gearbox so bad. when it works I have to admit it's an amazing bit of kit, but it's super expensive to repair, many garages wont go near them even though dsg has been around since 04 in many many cars, in my opinion it's more trouble than it's worth tbh

[blower]

The GTI probably just needs a clutch re-adaption, can be performed with VCDS or dealership.

The 7 speed is definitely broken - clutch pack has failed if it's juddering..also later software updates improve shifting and reduce lurchyness.

4th one - mechatronics sounds knackered.

Usually the 6 speed is reliable and has very few problems, and the ones it does have can be sorted out with a software update or re-adapation. Does sound like you have bought some 2nd hand lemons that were sold due to gearbox issues.

[edwheels]

Sounds unlucky and hoping I won't get any issues like this on my 7 Speed DSG as it is always smooth and fast.

Comparing it with my Smart Roadster Coupe (owned 2004-6) which is the only other auto/paddle I have ever driven it is night and day.

The Smart Roadster needed so much mastering. The only way I could get a smooth downshift was by blipping the throttle myself - that didn't always do the trick and the pedals where not really set up for heel and toe on downshifts whilst braking anyway. In auto mode it was woeful - painfully jerky especially pulling away and 1 to 2. No amount of dealer intervention helped. I knew it was partly down to software because if you turned on the ignition and started it normally the jerkiness was incredibly bad, but if you remembered to turn it on (but not start) and then turn it off and then on again ( then starting) it was always 50% better (but still unacceptable). Perhaps I had the IT Crowd Special Edition?

The Smart's gear-change speed too was incredibly slow - measured in seconds - you learned to anticipate. I took it on a hillclimb course at Prescott Hill once - to say the gearbox was flustered would be an understatement... I was about 3 gear changes ahead of the car most of the time - terrible... but overall it was a car of character and glad I owned it for while.

[cloud11]

The GTI probably just needs a clutch re-adaption, can be performed with VCDS or dealership.

The 7 speed is definitely broken - clutch pack has failed if it's juddering..also later software updates improve shifting and reduce lurchyness.

4th one - mechatronics sounds knackered.

Usually the 6 speed is reliable and has very few problems, and the ones it does have can be sorted out with a software update or re-adapation. Does sound like you have bought some 2nd hand lemons that were sold due to gearbox issues.

Funny you mentioned these points!!

gti has had the clutch readaptation done, helped slightly I think it needs it done whilst cold though?

The 7 speed is broken although the judders gotten better feels like flywheels very loose on it, it's had new mech unit before I bought it! that cars being sorted next week anyway so meh.

the 4th one the mechatronics unit was done by vw 10k ago! which they confirmed before I purchased it I might pop back and see if their work is warrantied? maybe?

Put it this way, I've had many DSG's and a huge amount of bad luck! not like I'm buying cars with 100+ on the clock either
I think it's more down to the fact I'm very picky, like my dad and friends and family have thought all gearboxes are fine maybe a little clunky but I want that buttery smooth mercedes type box but with lightning quick changes which isn't easy I guess

[edwheels]

I think you have been unlucky, but you are, like me, quite right to expect things to work as they as supposed to.

I've had issues with manual gearboxes and clutches too over the years too.

Incredibly ripped off by Volvo - we had V40 for a while. The clutch cable was sticky - my wife took it in when I was working abroad - they replaced the entire clutch but not the cable - I wasn't happy. The gear change itself was became crunchy too (they never managed to fix it - "they all do that") and it started to whine in 3rd and 5th ("they all do that") - put me off Volvo for life - nice enough car but overall awful customer service. (It also leaked badly into the boot - never fixed - "can't find anything wrong" and never interested in fixing even when 3 inches of water was spotted in spare wheel-well a few days after buying from main dealer).

Toyota MR2 - Clutch release bearing failing at just 36K miles - although under warranty it took 2 different dealers and 3 trips for them to actual agree with my diagnosis. Oddly (and in my favour) on the final trip they replaced the following, under warranty, without asking: Entire Clutch kit inc. Release Bearing, Exhaust, Brake Pads and Disks - most odd but sort of good.

We live and learn.

[blower]

The GTI probably just needs a clutch re-adaption, can be performed with VCDS or dealership.
The 7 speed is broken although the judders gotten better feels like flywheels very loose on it, it's had new mech unit before I bought it! that cars being sorted next week anyway so meh.

When the clutch pack has failed on the 7 speeds, they are always worse in hotter weather - they are more likely to slip.

This starts off as a mild judder in 2nd gear at low rev's, but will get worse and start doing it more frequently and on other gear transitions.
The problem with them is that they get partly glazed and/or build up hard deposits on some of the clutch fingers.
The result is that under light clutch pressure, when the gearbox is trying to ease the clutch in smoothly, it will slip, then grip, then slip, then grip - resulting in a horrid judder.

VW solved this (sort of) with a harder clutch material, more resistant to glazing / overheating. Further revisions in software also changed how much it slipped the clutch in on the 1st-2nd-3rd gear transitions.

You have had terribly bad luck with them! - the 7 speed i am not surprised with, a 2010 clutch pack is going to be completely knackered by now - they would fail in as little as 10k miles.

[wigit]

Always was anti DSG but we now have two DSG cars and both of use really like it, it takes a while to get the best out of it and in reality as soon as i am above 30 i just use the paddles, i find our manual daily hack a chore and thats going for a DSG and i have gone DCT on a M2

I think a 30 minute test drive is not the best way to show it off and few dealers seem to urge you to try it in sport, drive and manual etc

[blower]

On the very rare occasion I have had to go back to a manual, I feel like I am sitting in some antiquated machine with pulleys and levers that I have to constantly push and pull, timing correctly to keep the machine running.......it's pretty antiquated, bordering on primitive when you think about it - what other piece of equipment nowadays would you have to manually slide gears in and out on to keep it running....we don't even wind up watches any more (hell most ppl, including me, don't even have a watch anymore!)

[sharkey1739]

interesting post, will be sure to remember this info on any future test drives. thanks

[edwheels]

Since I started the topic, I've learnt a few more things about how the DSG works for me - might not be the way for everyone...

In any stop / start urban driving it has to be D with very occasional overrides using the paddles. In fact anything under 20MPH I find the paddles don't do it for me.

If I have to come to a stop in manual mode, I never change down in to 1 using the paddles. I let the computer decide when to go into 1 and usually switch back to D until things are well underway again.

I find the worst manual change is from 1 to 2. Much of this is not relevant as I prefer D for any stop/start (see above). 1 to 2 in D is unnoticeable - seamless and smooth.

The best time for the paddles is a fast B road with lots of bends - switching up or down between 2, 3, 4 & 5

Although I started off thinking S mode was pretty good, I am growing to hating it - way too revvy and aggressive. Doesn't suit me - others may like it. D mode is learning my driving style well and rarely feels like it is in the wrong gear. I also drive the wife's BMW which has an excellent (non DSG) Auto and the the sport mode in this is near perfect for short blasts.

I occasion use the gear stick to change up or down in Manual mode - when the steering wheel is being turned - e.g. entering fast roundabout in 2, use the gearstick to change up to 3 as I exit... BTW one good thing, it seems logical to push it forward for UP and back for DOWN.... the BMW has a manual mode and it is the other way around and I have never (in 6 years so far) got used to that!!!

Good job I like cars you have to learn.