I've been sold a crashed car!

[Shakeystevo]

Evening all,

What a bad day at the office

I recently just picked up my 1.4 160 DSG on Tuesday from an Evan Halshaw dealer. Everything has been going smoothly until my recent trip to VW today...

Before I bought the car, given the 33k miles, I knew the DSG was due a service soon. I decided to get it done straight away - so glad I did...

Dropped it off this morning and received a call a few hours later with the good old "got some good and bad news!" I opted for the good first...

I got the DSG service for free as it wasn't brought in when a recall was issued - result

I was then hit with the bad.... the car has been in a bad crash and you need a new engine! I almost died on the spot!

To continue this I need to go back to the beginning (like they do in the movies! ).

When I first went to inspect the car the front near side clip for the bumper to the wing was slightly loose. The dealer just said one had broke and it was being sorted... so when I inspected a little deeper I could see an area that had been recently re-sprayed (could tell by the feel/texture compared to the rest). I was told it hadn't been in any accidents and the previous owner never reported any when asked - he said it must have been a cosmetic thing (scratch etc). Took it out for a drive and everything seemed good. We had some banter and agreed a reasonable price and agreed that the clip would be done.

Before paying the money I did some digging myself. All reports came back OK - no insurance claims/stolen etc... so I decided it was good to go providing the clip was done.

Picked it up Tuesday and it was all good. Bumper was in place and from the outside looked OK. We sorted the paperwork and I was informed it had just underwent a full service and 10 million point check (or how ever many they do these days) - he gave me a copy of what was done, at the time I just put it with the other paperwork...

When I got back I went through all the documents and scanned over the service print out... it listed the following:

* Droplink NSF
*Arch Liner
*Arch Spat (??)
* Fog Light Grille

Alarm bells started ringing!! I rang VW the next day (was going to anyway for DSG service) and got it booked in... when I dropped it off I asked them to undertake an inspection on the front end of the car. They told me they do a complimentary one anyway - which was nice!

So after they rang I popped back down. basically the front end of the car on the NS, behind the bumper, was a total mess and mainly repaired with filler. The suspension has been hit and the droplink replaced with non OEM parts and some dodgy looking bolts! the side of the car from the door to the rear wing looked to have been dented. It had been filled in and sprayed - I couldn't see it but the technician started tapping the areas and you could hear the change in density. He said it was done to a good standard but he noticed right away.

On top of that they said after a quick diag it had several stored mis-fires. The guy said it was OK to drive but be in the knowing the engine could kaput at any time

I contacted Evan Halshaw to explain the situation. I sent them an email detailing all what was said and the video evidence VW put together for me.

The manager is off until Monday so that is where I am so far...

I could really do with some advice on what to do... I certainly been lied to by EH as they must have known fine and well it has been in a decent accident. They possibly didn't know about the engine but could this have been caused by the crash?

I must be within my rights to sent it back and demand a refund... aren't I?

For what its worth, they did give me a three month warranty before I signed!

Any help would be great! its a shame because I hadn't even introduced myself in the forum haha

Cheers
A

[Cuprabob]

The engine issue is seperate from the accident damage. The 1.4 160 engine has common issues which manifest in misfires and can result in either an engine rebuild or a new engine. A quick search on this forum and some other.VAG forums will return pages of information.

Accident damage will only be recorded if the car is a write off and the insurance paid out. Normal accident repairs even claimed through insurance are not recorded. People put too much faith in these HPI reports. In reality, they tell you very little. However, Evan Halshaw should have picked up the issues when inspecting the car for sale therefore take the information from VW and demand a full refund.

[Shaun1982]

The wife said read through exactly what it says on your purchase contract with EH & see if it mentions anything about their returns policy. Most contracts have at least a 7 day return clause but you may risk the deposit etc.
I hope you get it sorted anyway mate

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[Shakeystevo]

Thanks for the replies.

I did see some details on the misfire issue, I thought this was on 1.4s pre-2010... I will search more and see what its all about.

Given the damage I would certainly have thought it was a CAT D. Given the poor repair I wouldn't have thought it was an insurance repair. If it was my car and I claimed on the insurance, if it was returned like that I would be pretty peeved. Going to remove the wheel today and have a good look myself. Ill get some pics sorted.

I've had a read through the T's and C's.. as normal, its one big riddle! Main points I can see are:

1. The purchaser may not cancel the contract without prior written agreement of an authorsied representative from the seller.

2. If the vehicle is used, it is sold: subject to any defects which the seller has drawn to the purchaser attention prior to placing and order. and: Subject to any defects which the purchaser discovered or ought to have discovered upon examining the vehicle prior to placing an order and that the purchaser has been offered chance to examine the vehicle.

Doesn't specify anything of a returns policy and sounds really to cover new cars. Having got the car Tuesday and brought it to their attention Friday, I had it 3 days. So hopefully their returns policy is 7 days... I will have to wait and see...

Cheers
A

[Shakeystevo]

Just on a side note... I've just connected the car to an OBD2 dongle I had from my previous car and its not showing any stored mis-fire faults. The software indicated that the DTCs had been cleared 24 miles ago... the VW technician wouldn't clear the codes would he?!

Confused now...

Can non VW diag software still read these codes? stored or otherwise?

Cheers
A

[bitmadmax]

Tech's will probably clear the stored codes so as to tell if they recurr - nothing sinister as long as they have been noted, which it seems they have.

[Shakeystevo]

Thanks for that. Problem I have is that with the faults cleared I have no grounds with the dealer I got the car from. They want to sent it to there specialist to run diagnostic too...

[BunnyJen]

However, Evan Halshaw should have picked up the issues when inspecting the car for sale therefore take the information from VW and demand a full refund.

Totally agree. If I was in your position I'd be demanding a refund. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

[Shakeystevo]

Thanks for that bunnyjen. Already demanded the refund, so tomorrow I will find out their response. Hopefully they will come good.

[Gutu12]

Make sure you make mention of the Sale of a Goods Act. You can give the car back to the dealer, refusing the repair and get your money back within "a reasonable amount of time" (not specified by the act). The issue need only be a minor one for you to reject the car, but you must stop using it!

I did this with a Volvo recently and frankly am likely to do the same with the Rthat I bought just last week. It went in for VW vehicle check yesterday and they have diagnosed a leaking gear box and a leak to the engine. The have Also detected a rear "ding to one of the back quarters.
Also one of the front inserts fell out yesterday and is lost!!! It's going back.

Good luck and don't take any BS from them.

[Shaun1982]

Yeah my missus mentioned to use the sales of goods act for me to tell you on our way out lastnight.
Best of luck mate

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[SMB]

If I remember correctly the sales of goods act says it has to be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose. I would suspect there is a world of difference between a poorly repaired secondhand car and one with a couple of oil leaks and some previously ding damage. As a second hand vehicle it's highly likely to have seen paint, ( even many new ones do) so a small ding previously repaired is unlikely to be a be a reason for rejection. You also are supposed to give them chance to repair it, It sounds like the op has fair reason to complain as the repairs underneath are of poor quality, perhaps even unsafe, but 99%of secondhand cars could be described by a dealer looking for work as having oil leaks and signs of paint repair. Unless there are other faults you are not disclosing, I don't expect you will have much success, if you planned to have the car checked over, you should have done that before buying.

[Shaun1982]

Yeah it's got to be fit for purpose for a reasonable amount of time,the amount isn't stated though

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[SMB]

So my point is, that the op may have a valid point as a poor repair makes the vehicle unfit , gutu is unlikely to have a case based on 2 oil leaks and a previous repair that from the description was done correctly.

[Shaun1982]

Agreed

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[Gutu12]

I take your point but what does fit for purpose mean? It means more than just being able to drive it, although with one of my front bumper inserts also falling off and being run over by a following motorist, revealing a wobbly air intake behind that is now unprotected and knocking on something else, would I assume certainly strengthen my case.
The car is now realistically undrivable due to the likely cause of more damage.

Fit for purpose includes being able to drive the car in an expected level of comfort, which is where you get the dealer by the short a curly's. Who are they to determine what your exepected level of comfort is? I for instance would argue that I cannot now be comfortable in a 12K mile car that has both gear box and engine oil leaks. A lack of trust in the car clearly makes driving it actually uncomfortable (while I wait for the engine to blow up or the gear box to seize) and indeed I am now less likely to press my right foot to the floor as frequently or as hard and therefore cannot enjoy the car in the manner in which I intended.
Of course you can always fall back on the fact that had I know that the car had been in need of repair, and not being an expert I didn't, I clearly would not have bought it. (The price I paid was market value and not for a car that needed repair).

I purchased from a very reputable dealer (They sell Astons and Jags - having taken the Roc in as a part ex for a Jag), and in discussions before even seeing the car I made it quite clear to them that the condition was of the utmost importance to me (I can be a picky arse when it comes to the condition of cars) and I was assured that this car was just like it cam out of the box. Clearly this is not the case although giving the car the once over it seemed in great condition. It is only when cleaning a car that you see it for what it is and the fact that the car had been repaired in itself has ruined the thought of ownership.

As a customer I am not expected to be an expert and can return faulty / not fit for purpose goods within a resonable amount of time which the act seems to suggest is around 6 months.

You do not have to accept a repair

[Gutu12]

if you planned to have the car checked over, you should have done that before buying.

My car was advertised as having had an 85 point check. Why should I check it, they are the experts, I wasn't buying privately!

[Shakeystevo]

I see your point SMB. From my perspective, I couldn't have inspected the car in the areas I am having issues with. Externally the car looks great. behind the bumper, within the suspension and ECU fault codes is a different story - that said, their policy is to undertake a x number point check. At the time he highlighted this check because he said they replaced a tyre that was getting down to the limits. As pointed out by Gutu12, why should I pay RAC/AA £200 for something already done by a reputable dealer? If it was a private sale it would be different...

The garage have just been in contact...

The guy (dealer manager) was quite apologetic and seemed to acknowledge my issues and just how peeved I am. He knows my ultimatum in that I want to return it asap, and that it certainly isn't worth what was paid. He needs to speak with his regional manager (which is understandable) and he would get back in touch as soon as possible.

I didn't get any sales speech or negative comments to the fact its used etc etc... he did say he was disappointed the garage (as a whole) missed any un-specified damage, following a review of the video from VW.

I envisage they will want to maybe offer a partial refund so as to them not taking it back... I would expect costs of the engine and fitting as a minimum... somehow I don't think this is something they would do...

I suspect if I return it, and they do the right thing, it would be shifted to auction sold as seen.

Wonder how many times I need to yell "refund"

Cheers
A

[Shaun1982]

Seems like they might not be total arse s then [THUMBS UP SIGN] good luck & keep us posted. I saw a black rocco in an even halshaw garage up in Newcastle way this weekend in the showroom. Maybe people should steer clear

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[Shakeystevo]

They aren't being funny with me yet... I suspect its going to take a good few phone calls and emails to get everything sorted.

My issue is that what to do with it in the interim. I've told them I am not driving it (parked on drive) but asked can I still drive it... he said he needed to check. VW said it was OK; just a ticking timebomb with respect to the misfires...

Cheers
A