Scirocco Central

Hi,

I want to try to gather some stats on failure (or non failure) rate of the 7 speed DSG gearboxes, that's the DQ200 DSG thats fitted to 1.4 tsi's and 1.6 tdi models.

Please can you post if you have any juddering in 2nd gear or rough shifting, and any work done - in particular:

-Mechatronics replacement
-Clutch Pack replacement
-Entire gearbox replaced.

Also:

-Year of the car
-Engine type (1.4 tsi, or tdi etc)
-Miles before failure/repair
-Miles on any new clutch pack, with year it was replaced.
-Miles on any new mechatronics, with year it was replaced.
-Any other symptoms you have or are experiencing.

e.g.

-2010 1.4 tsi (160HP)
-CLutch pack replaced in 2010 at 15,000 miles
-Clucth pack replaced in 2012 at 30,000 miles
-Mechatronics replaced in 2013 at 40,000 miles
-Car currently on 47,000 miles

Clutches experienced juddering in 2nd gear on both occasions before it replaced
Mechatronics had rough shifting in 3rd before replacement.

Also feel free to post if you have had no issues with your 7 speed DSG - post your engine type, car year and current mileage.

Please only 7 speed DSG users post....the 6 speed DSG has far less issues and is not prone to clutch failure.

I purchased the 1.4 tsi 160 in April, had 14.5k miles on her and juddering between 1st and 2nd gear, VW advised after diagnostics clutch pack failure - after a lot of arguing got a little good will (but nothing off labour) for clutch pack replacement - after more research vw upgraded the clutch pack after 2011 due to failures. Mine is a 2010 model. VW replaced clutch pack and juddering gone, been fine since and done 5k miles so it's fixed. However VW were not fessing up to any known issues despite it being well documented. Judder was always between first and second gear and juddered quite violently even felt through the dash. Apparently a 2 year warranty on the new clutch pack so if it goes again hopefully it's within this timescale.


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Thanks for the info,

Trying to get as many people as possible to post as i'm on my 3rd clutch pack and new mechatronics in 2013.
Previous owner did a lot of london rush hour stop start driving so went through the factory 2010 one in 14k miles.
I bought the car at 30k miles, and it started juddering at about 35k, replaced again this year at 45k.
Mechatronics replaced in 2013 as it would have a really rough shift now and then into 3rd gear.

I'm hoping the combination of a new revision mechatronics combined with a 2015 clutch pack has resolved the issue....mileage will tell.
My friends 2012 1.4 tsi 122ps is also juddering at 25k miles, same symptoms as yours and mine - 1st to 2nd gear transition, when warmed up - in particular from a slow crawl in 2nd gear and then moving off, especially whilst trying to turn a corner as you would when joining a road at a junction.

What i'm trying to work out is if there is anyone who has made it to say 50k without issues on this gearbox - as i have my doubts if any dsg 7 speed owner has got to 50k without either the clutches crapping out or mechatronics issues.

Also, people who have had new revision clutch packs and mechatronics, have they had the juddering return....i.e have they fixed this or is it forever an issue and these clutches just only last 30k or so.

More noticeable under load I.e pulling off on a slope (uphill) - several forums suggest that VW revised the clutch pack in 2011/2012 so any replaced after this time should stand the test of time. Hope I don't get any more issues, lovely car but get so paranoid about every noise or feeling, VW aren't a massive help even when issues are well documented like this one. Good luck, mine was London miles replaced at 14.5k miles (last owner was London based and was his weekend car owned from new and serviced every year at 3-4k miles between intervals by VW ) so couldn't believe it when they said they wouldn't sort it out (due to age was out of VW warranty) I asked over and over what clutch goes at 14.5k miles when it's impossible to ride the clutch like a manual as it changes gear for u, they were very unhelpful on this issue, and it is not cheap to fix. Good luck!


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greg7728 wrote:several forums suggest that VW revised the clutch pack in 2011/2012

From my reading of the forums, the supposed upgraded clutch plate only came out in 2013. As whether the newer clutch will be serviceable for more than the average 20K miles of the older clutch, well, when combined with the issues of the 1.4 160, I' won't be hanging around to find out.

- Clutch Pack replacement (fully under goodwill - notes: was couple of months outside of manufacturers warranty, had been purchased as an approved car, and had extended warranty))
- 2011 (MY2012)
- 1.4 tsi 160
- 22K
- 8k, late 2013

its really bad that VW are happy to take your money but aren't willing to help when issues arise.

Out of curiosity,

How much is replacement clutch packs

My clutch pack bill was 1200, this included a goodwill on parts of 60% from VW. So would have been more without this, think the bulk of it was labour, 6/7 hour job at 125 an hour I guess.


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I was told that the replacement cost would have been 1200 (all of which was paid under goodwill).

My 2010 1.4 TSI 160 HP with about 14k miles judders occasionally between 1st and 2nd gear, that is, not during every trip and it only makes a noise (no vibrations as far as I can tell). I was going to look into replacing the clutch pack this summer, but I've changed my mind (I thought it was going to get worse with hot weather, well it hasn't). I've learned to anticipate the juddering and I'm able to play with the throttle and avoid it.

I've researched these DSG7 related issues and to my mind it doesn't seem like the real problem is that the clutch becomes prematurely worn out as one would think of clutches from manual gearboxes. Something else is going on. Here's an in-depth possible explanation:
https://touran.me/media/2013/03/DQ200issue_en.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

According to the testing done from that source, in specific situations both of the clutches are engaged for a moment, which should not normally happen. The difference between RPMs on the 1st gear shaft and the 2nd gear shaft then causes friction fighting and oscillations and that results in judders.

Here's the VCDS test video:
[youtube][/youtube]

As you can see, when both of the clutches are pressed leaving about the same space (the value in mm) you can hear the juddering noise. A completely disengaged clutch leaves about 12mm of space and completely engaged is 2mm, when they are about 6-8mm for both clutches at the same time, juddering occurs. You can find technical speculations for why this is happening in the PDF linked above.

BTW searching through the VW parts database, you can find the clutch pack part numbers for different revisions. They start at 0AM198140A and go all the way to 0AM198140P. That's a lot of revisions if I'm reading this correctly (from A to P being the latest)!
http://www.nininet.de/preise/index.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Grande wrote:I've researched these DSG7 related issues and to my mind it doesn't seem like the real problem is that the clutch becomes prematurely worn out as one would think of clutches from manual gearboxes. Something else is going on. Here's an in-depth possible explanation:

I'd understood the issue to be friction deposit build up on the clutch face, not wear per se?

The rattle noise is different from the judder/shudder with 2nd gear . The rattle Noise is 100% Normal, all DQ200/DSG7 Gearboxes make rattle sound at rough road even when they are brand new . The Judder with 2nd gear is due to polish of the friction material in the K2 Clutch .The Rattle noise at rough road is comfort issue and not mechanical issue ,this is how it works

Here in Greece we have a lot of rough road, all DQ200/DSG7 gearboxes makes rattle sound even when the car is brand new .

The latest part no is 0AM198140L for the 1.4 TSI CAVD Engine , the latest clutch pack is with 3rd generation clutch material and it solves all the problems (slipping and judder with 2nd gear) The rattle is 100% normal
See some of my videos
The rattle nois is cominf from the dissengaged clutch + from the gears which are engaged but without torque from the enine
[youtube][/youtube]
[youtube][/youtube]

And here is my vote :
-MY2012 1.4 TSI 160hp CAVD Engine, 2nd Stage Tuned 248hp -340NM
-Clutch Pack Replaced in 2014 at 20.000km the problem was Clutch Slipping at Gear Changes with full throttle and Clutch Slipping with 5th + Gear but the problem was not the clutch pack but the bad tuning on ECU (E-Tuners) when i change on better tuner(TMG Performance ) all problems gone , but anyway VW cover my clutch and i pay 0 Euro
.-Car Currently on 37.000km with 340nm and 248hp and it is PERFECT

Great posts....

the_winner is right with regards to the rattle - they all do this over bumpy roads, just some are a bit more rattly than others. Mine rattles but it doesn't bother me as its not that loud and you can only hear it with the windows down.

The latest part no is 0AM198140L for the 1.4 TSI CAVD Engine , the latest clutch pack is with 3rd generation clutch material and it solves all the problems (slipping and judder with 2nd gear)

That is the latest part number - but only for 2011/2012 or later models.
The problem is how can you tell that the latest 2015 clutch pack has solved all the problems - they said that about the 2012 revision, and this clutch pack has only come out this year and i doubt anyone has put enough miles on it yet to confirm its ok.

According to the testing done from that source, in specific situations both of the clutches are engaged for a moment, which should not normally happen. The difference between RPMs on the 1st gear shaft and the 2nd gear shaft then causes friction fighting and oscillations and that results in judders.

I read about that too - problem is if that was the sole/primary cause of the judder, why is there no sign of judder at all for over 10,000 miles?....and then it starts juddering in 2nd gear every time its warmed up , particularly on hot dry days.
I'm on my 3rd clutch pack (including the factory one)..first 2 were fine for over 10k miles with no judder - then they started juddering.

I tend to agree with the_winner, from what i have read the problem is glazing of the clutch surface. This is more prevalent with a lot of city stop start driving and in particular in hot countries like australia, where the failure rate is massive (there have even been reports of some golf mk7 versions juddering over there).
I remember reading that in some circumstances the clutch temperature can reach extremely high temps, at which point the clutch material is melting slightly and over time you end up glazing parts of the surface.
In order to smooth the 2nd gear transition, the box will slip the clutch slightly - with it being 2nd gear it's doing this under a high torque situation. If the clutch has a part glazed surface it will judder. It tends not to judder in other gears as the box does not try to slip the clutch as much in those other gears.

The only way i can see VW fixing this is to either reduce the deliberate slipping in 2nd gear (resulting a rough shift, and i believe they have been doing this already with various software revisions as the 2nd gear transition isn't the smoothest), or they need to have a tougher friction material that can withstand higher temps.

The problem is basically heat - it's affecting other dry clutch automatic box designs from other manufacturers....the clutches are overheating as the box tries to smooth gear transitions by slipping it.

-2012 1.4 tsi (160HP), 42,000 miles
No issues to date.
(unrelated, only repair has been 2 wheel bearings and 4 disks).

Roy