Scirocco Discounts and Dealer

[timaye]

Hi All

I am a new member of this forum - I thought I would share my findings from this weekends investigation on buying a Scirocco 170 Diesel.

I visited my local VW dealer in Hertfordshire and asked about a test drive - I was not surprised that he did not have one I could test drive - generally the dealer was a bit disinterested and did not really try and help. I have not driven a 170 bhp diesel of any derivative from the VAG group and the dealer did not have a Golf 170 to see what the performance is like, the dealer will 'give me a call if he gets one in'. I am a cash buyer and would have paid a deposit if they had helped a bit more!

In summary I was blown away by the Roc and was not impressed with the dealer. Such an impressive car - made all the other VW's in the showroom look very dated.

Looking around at Car Brokers I can find discounts of about £1500 on a non DSG 170 diesel - so not as good as a Scrappage deal (I did not ask the dealer if the Scrappage scheme is operational for the Scirocco). Has anyone found better deals than this?

Cheers
Tim

[gc76]

Hi Tim

Check out this post

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... f=2&t=1808

Might answer some of your questions

[timaye]

Thanks for for the link - really useful.

Seems like lots of people found the same thing as I did around dealers attitudes. Maybe because of limited stock?

Cheers
Tim

[maisbitt]

Timaye - Limited stock? You could say that for the 170TDI, try no stock!

They've just announced the availability for the 170, which means that as of a week ago you could order one. Factor in 16 weeks build, and you won't get your hands on one until Aug/Sept.

The dealer may have a demonstrator in by July as VW will build a few of these as stock, but if you want to know the pull and drive of a TDI170 CR engine, I suggest you go to your local Audi dealer and try an A3 with that engine, as well as get a drive in a Scirocco 140TDI. That way you'll get a feel for the car and then the extra power of the 170 in a different car.

[timaye]

Hi Maisbitt

The dealer did not have and MkV 170 Diesel Golfs, not the MkIV's (I know that they are not yet available) - thats why I was surprised because ther must be a load of MKIV's around. The dealer was just so not into selling cars!

Cheers
Tim

[maisbitt]

The MK5 170 TDI has the PD version of the engine, and will feel noticeably different to the CR version as featured in recent A3 (and TT) TDI170's.

The PD is less smooth than the CR, the CR has a more linear power delivery and feels less grabby from standstill. So if you were to get a drive in a MK5 Golf 170TDI, the engine comparison wouldn't be as straightforward as that in an A3 or TT.

I just traded in my 170TDI MK5 Golf for the Scirocco, and 30BHP power differences aside (I have the GT 140TDI CR), the CR unit feels totally different to the PD versions of the 140 or 170 (have owned both).

It's a bit poor if the dealer does not have at least a Golf MK6 140TDI to show you, to get a feel for the 140.

You have to haggle very hard to get dealer discount on a Scirocco right now - the dealers have a low allocation of them and as such, demand is outstripping supply. Because of this the dealers are confident that they'll be bought by people willing to buy them at full price. They're not going to give you a discount (or much of one) if the next customer in will pay out full price for the same car.

[DickyP]

Been watching and reading on the forum for some time as my current 170Leon Fr is due for replacement in November, I have to say I'm not the biggest fan of the 170TDi in PD form and prefer the 140TDi PD over it. Haven't tried any CR vehicles yet but having a 140GR Rocco tomorrow for the day

Anyway back to your situation, in terms of difference I wouldn't be to swayed by headline figures as there is very little between the two PD engines when going along (unless mines broke!!)

As for discount I have spoken with two dealers today and got significant discount offered from both, 2.0 140CR in Candy White, 18" Interlagos and multifunction wheel with Highline comp for £18437, the other dealer came in at £18800 (List £20420) so discounts are still out there just let your fingers do the walking!!!

[maisbitt]

Dicky - I know what you mean about the 170 PD, all that power and no way to put it all down below 30mph.

When I had my 170TDI Golf, I didn't dare go more than 1/2 throttle to get away from a busy roundabout when a gap showed, in case I just sat wheelspinning on the spot.

The 140CR in the Scirocco is a much smoother unit, more uniform power delivery, and even just coming home from work tonight (11 mile varied journey) I got 51mpg for the trip vs 44mpg generally in the 170PD.

Those discounts quoted - is that a standard 140TDI with the GT wheels and steering wheel, as opposed to the full GT? Wheels, foglights and steering wheel are what make a GT, visually.

I got £1000 off list and £1250 more on my part ex than was expecting (£12000 for a 57 plate Golf 3dr GT Sport TDI 170 in Tornado red - parkers guide says £11000) - so I got a canny discount, in a roundabout way. That Golf is on the forecourt for £14995, so they expect quite a mark up on the part exes too!

You're more likely to get a discount on system grabs and stock/impending deliveries rather than from the dealers low annual allocation (mine was a dealer swap - VW in Guildford wanted a MK6 Golf, and VW Newcastle wanted the Scirocco). No room for negotiation on one of the 28 they had allocated for the year to order.

[DickyP]

Maisbitt, you picked up on the one point that bugs the hell out of me. The 170 pd fuel consumption is terrible, only 42/44mpg from normal driving, thinking about it now I bet the 09Passat I had the other day was the 140CR and it lifted its skirt nicely while constantly returning 50+mpg.

Most people who I can bore I tell them to have the 140 over the 170 as theres no point and the DPF with that engine just seems to run and hide.

The reason for no GT is that it is priced at £20850 which is above my grade / allowance scheme (opt out of company car) of £20466, I would of been fine if it wasn't for the price increase!!!! Even though you get discounts it has to be on the book price hence none GT car but with a few odds and ends taking me to £20420, luckyly I won't miss the fogs or climate to be fair but I would have gone GT if the rules allowed!!

The car is also a build vehicle as I don't need it until November so its from thier allocation of vehicles so will be 2010MY forsure, also will probably sneak tinted glass in under the radar (cash only sir!!)

[maisbitt]

DickyP - Theres no escaping the DPF now - both the 140CR and 170CR have it, but the 140CR I have is so much smoother than the 170PD - hopefully the 170CR will be as smooth, there's supposed to be only 2mpg penalty for having one vs the 140CR (official combined figures).

The 170CR prices are too much - how can the 170CR cost £400 more than the 2.0TSI - that's ridiculous!

For the extra £1000 over a 140PD Golf, you were paying for all new piezo-electic injectors, DPF, Chrome tailpipes on a 170PD. Now you have to pay £950 for a remap. Mechanically and aesthetically the 140CR and 170 CR are the same - both have DPF and piezo-electric injectors, VW are taking the piss, in effect an official remap should cost £500 tops over the 140.

Looks like you're picking the best of the GT stuff - wheels and steering wheel are the best part of a GT, the climate is handy too, but the fogs are just there to look nice - I used the ones on my Golf 3 times in 2 years, they're ornaments (although there'll always be some tit in a Corsa or Fiesta "Sport" that feels the need to have them on all the time).

[pafa]

If the 170 is just a remap of the 140 - how come the 170 weighs more than the 140?

140 Commonrail: 1379 Kgs
170 Commonrail: 1395 Kgs

(numbers pulled from the german vw site)

[maisbitt]

Good point - I don't know. Equipment-wise the 140GT and the 170GT share equipment in the UK, so the differences in weight should be down to mechanicals. Not sure what the 170 could have that weighs 16kg more than the 140.

Unless.....in Germany, are the equipment levels the same for the 140 and the 170? There are certain things the UK spec has as standard that the Germans have to pay extra for. Interlagos wheels aren't (or weren't) standard fit on a German Scirocco, you had to up your spec to get them. Maybe there is more as standard on a German 170TDI over the 140 TDI?

[maisbitt]

Based on German VW website data:-

There is 16kg between manual Scirocco 140PS TDI, and same car in 170PS TDI. There doesn't seem to be any differences in equipment.

There is also 16kg between manual Scirocco 140PS TDI and 6 speed DSG Scirocco 140PS TDI.

But, there is 26kg between manual Scirocco 170PS TDI and 6 speed DSG Scirocco 170PS TDI.

Are these quoted kerb weights accurate? If so, it would seem that the identical DSG unit in the 170PS TDI weighs 10kg more than that fitted to the 140PS TDI.

[MATT1978]

I got a great deal for a guy from Arnold Clark in Glasgow at Jordanhill, he was a new start called Ronan and couldnt have been more helpful, got a great deal and got the car when I was told I would get it, its worth while giving them a phone,

[maisbitt]

I have heard shocking things about Arnold Clark in terms of 2nd hand cars - there is a website dedicated to the complaints that Arnold Clark have tried to have removed (unsuccessfully).

Stuff such as proof that they charge you for work that hasn't been done, that they knowingly sell you clocked cars as genuine mileage, charge you for non-existent damage to their courtesy cars etc.

But on a new car you have no such risks it should be factory perfect - buy it from Arnolds and then go elsewhere for your aftersales.

Here is the link: http://www.arnoldclark.150m.com/

Of course, that branch might be the exception to the rule, but the website above is compulsive reading.

If you got such a great discount then that newbie salesperson will probably get a right bollocking from their gaffer.

Enjoy the discount, check the car over carefully before you leave (all dealers can miss some very basic and obvious faults on the PDI). Now the long wait?

[maisbitt]

Matt.

Just realised that you already have the car, but anyway, don't feel tied to any one VW dealer for aftersales, any other dealer can do the service or warranty work for you.