DSG judder question

[r.gbrown]

I sometimes experience the dreaded judder when moving off; It appears to happen more often when the car has heated up, oil temp around 90s , but not always. My dealer did a gearbox software update in December last year and said they couldnt find any fault but then it doesn't happen all the time. My question is this, what should I do? My warranty expired in January this year and I took out a comprehensive VW 1 year extended warranty. Does the extended warranty cover this sort of thing. Only done 22k miles so the car has had a pretty easy life. I love my car but just have this niggling doubt over the gearbox. I had an Eos before and sold it when 3 years old as the whole roof mechanism had to be replaced under warranty when that car was only months old and I was somewhat concerned if that happened again. Im beginning to wonder if VW quality is really all it should be..............

[moulin12]

As you seem to be aware, clutch judder with the VW 1.4 DSG DQ200 gearbox (used across the VW stable i.e. in VWs, Seats, Skodas and Audis) is a well-known problem. We're not talking about the software update that changes the gear ratios nor the mineral oil issue. Rather, it's a clutch pack/shim weakness, for which VW introduced a new clutch pack in 2013.

Mine had done around the same mileage as yours when it was replaced under approved car warranty (it was just outside the 3 year window). The problem is so well known - with so many internet pages on it - that VW don't have a leg to stand on, even if Mondial play hard. Press your case: you will win.

As for replicating the issue, find a quiet side rode with a incline at the junction. Approach the junction in D2 and do a sharp left or right under slight throttle - that should do it.

Remember, garages won't readily put forward your case because they are keen to protect their pot for goodwill repairs (VW will pay around 80% direct, the remainder comes from the garage's VW-allocated goodwill pot). That's the route you need to be going should Mondial put problems in your way.

Again, you would only have to spend an evening researching your case on the internet, plus a few mentions of trading standards, to get the garage and VW sit up and pay attention.

[greenmamba]

Is this also a known problem with a 2.0TSI DSG as mine does the same

[MrBarry123]

Mondial won't put up a fuss if there's an issue however at the same time won't just repair it because it's juddering slightly. You'll have to sit tight OP and wait until you've convinced the garage that there is a problem which is affecting the way the car performs and/or the clutch packs give out.

As long as you've got a warranty in place, you'll be covered as and when something happens.

[moulin12]

Is this also a known problem with a 2.0TSI DSG as mine does the same

I believe the issue on the 6 speed (2.0ltr) box is the clutch mechatronics unit. On the 7-sp (1.4ltr), it's the clutch pack.

[greenmamba]

Is it a sign of something to be worried about, or can I just live with it?

[moulin12]

Is it a sign of something to be worried about, or can I just live with it?

I'll have to leave it to someone experienced in the 2.0 mechatronics issue; but, as I understand it, the mechatronics is essentially the Clutch ECU, and the issue (which occurs when the box has been warmed up?) is more of a niggle/enjoyment type thing.

However, as said, hopefully one of the other forum users will be able to help. Otherwise, a search on here or on the internet (including for Golfs and Audis) should provide answers. GL.

[greg7728]

I have recently purchased a 2010 dsg7 1.4 tsi (160) 3 weeks ago, after driving for a week it became clear I have the dreaded shudder between 1st and second, only happening once engine is all heated up. So, took to VW and they came for a test ride (to make sure there really was a problem) and luckily it juddered, went in for diagnostic and they came back saying the clutch pack needs replacing (and shims) - thing is car has only done 15k miles so obviously I am not impressed at a car needing a new clutch at such low miles, VW have agreed to pay 60% of the parts as good will, my argument is surely this is admitting there is a problem, they should be fixing the problem! They won't pay labour, (115 an hour for 7 hour job) and not the other 40% of clutch pack. Overall not a great experience with VW, I didn't purchase from vw directly, but vehicle came with a warranty covering gearbox, my point is it should not need replacing at such low miles.
Anyone have any experience with good will from VW?
anyone else heard of a clutch going at 15k miles?
Overall less than impressed with a £1200 bill so I'm fighting it, wondering if I'm just wasting my time fighting the giant.

advice for anyone with this issue would be check with vw if they will do anything goodwill, apparently it's just them putting the mileage into a system and they come up with a percentage of their contribution.

overall, the car is great with exception of this issue. maybe i just got an unlucky one off.

[Rawcpoppa]

Fight it. State your case that the part has known issues. I have seen where they come back with better figures.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[moulin12]

I expect VW may have played ball if it was a VW approved car, or if you had the car from new.

I believe that even white goods have to be seen as fit for purpose over an extended number of years. Myself, I'd gather evidence from the web (take a couple of evening searching on tsi 1.4 clutch judder) share your findings with the garage via email, and then in polite conversation mention that you would like to get trading standards view on the issue. Bottom line, if it wasn't an issue they wouldn't have introduced an upgraded replacement clutch in 2013. Again, affects all 1.4 dsgs worldwide - audi, vw, seat, skoda.

[Stu13R]

I expect VW may have played ball if it was a VW approved car, or if you had the car from new.

I believe that even white goods have to be seen as fit for purpose over an extended number of years. Myself, I'd gather evidence from the web (take a couple of evening searching on tsi 1.4 clutch judder) share your findings with the garage via email, and then in polite conversation mention that you would like to get trading standards view on the issue. Bottom line, if it wasn't an issue they wouldn't have introduced an upgraded replacement clutch in 2013. Again, affects all 1.4 dsgs worldwide - audi, vw, seat, skoda.

Sounds like a dealer cop out to me. Threaten them with taking it to the Ombudsman due the part not being fit for purpose. In my experience he who shouts loudest gets and if they can get out of paying they will. That's all car manufacturers, insurance companies and the list goes on. Tell them you are going to speak to the local news paper. Any money back is better off in your pocket.

[greg7728]

Even so, 15k miles a car shouldn't need a new clutch - I will mention the Internet forums and trading standards name drop and see how it goes. At the end of the day they are giving 60% off parts which is admission of an issue surely, but up against retailer labour of £115 an hour that's a bit of an insult really. I'm the second owner, this has definitely put a bad taste in my mouth regarding VW group.


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[moulin12]

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... 06#p145906" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

----------------

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 873-2.html
http://www.vweosclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... tm?t=98521
http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=363875" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/show" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... DSG-Judder
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/27" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... -warranty/
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/28" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... heavy-car/
http://www.pistonheads.com/Gassing/topi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... G+Problems

[greg7728]

Thanks, I have viewed most of these however I will use it as ammo against the inevitable denial from VW. The retailer are saying they cannot authorise further goodwill it's just a computer they input miles and part it spits out % of goodwill, so I'm trying to contact VW directly via social media to open a line of communication there and see if the retailer is spinning a yarn.


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[moulin12]

I think that in these cases it also depends on how proactive the garage wants to be. A certain percentage of goodwill repair costs are borne directly by the manufacturer, with the rest (not necessarily the remainder) borne indirectly through a VW-funded goodwill pot held by the garage. These goodwill pots are essentially sweetener pots: naturally, garages are reluctant to eat into their goodwill pots, particularly if you aren't seen as a potential future customer.

[greg7728]

Update: the VW customer care team have said they will not offer anything more than 60% of parts as good will. Their investigation was a farce, I asked the lady (Jessica) what did she find out when enquiring why a clutch has gone at such low miles and she replied there is no explanation. Also to add a kicker, they won't do any goodwill unless I pay for it myself, so the garage I purchased the vehicle from cannot even pay repairs with this discount and claim their vat back - VW are really milking this - off to trading standards I guess now so disappointed in their customer care and any level of service.


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[Rawcpoppa]

Is there a vw Facebook page you can post to? You have no control over how the clutches engage. They should be replaced for free at such a low mileage IMO.

[greg7728]

I agree but VW do not. I tweeted, and spoke to their care team - nothing! Once changed I'm keeping the old clutch so I can see it and use it as evidence for trading standards


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[Rawcpoppa]

It would be great if you did get back your clutches but I'm not sure if you do under goodwill. I've never come across pics of worn dq200 clutches.

Alternatively, if you don't want to spend right now while you fight, have you tried driving in manual mode? I've noticed that the shift point of gear 1 changes so u avoid juddering in gear 2 for slow speeds.

[greg7728]

I could, but I need my car and I've only had it a month so just want it sorted. VW care are disappointing - at very least I want pictures and I'll compile them with pics of the mileage covered and take my case to trading standards - we shall see. If the workshop refuse me taking pictures of the worn clutches then I know something is being covered up


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