Scirocco Central

Studded Tyres are illegal not because they are prescribed by law but because of the result of there actions.

"If the tyre causes either damage to the road, or to persons, or to any vehicle using the road. This would cover such instances as if a vehicle with damaged or very oversized tyres which either caught against a person or other vehicle resulting in either damage or injury. Studded tyres also are included in this clause and if used in inappropriate conditions (i.e. where there is no ice or snow) and they damage the road surface then they would be clearly illegal."

hi andy what steel wheels did you fit and cost and does 205-55-16 =circumferance of235==40==18 alloys

i think i might invest in a set of cheap wheels and snow tyres for next year!

summer tyres in this weather = FAIL.

some numpty Renault Espace driver has crashed into a kerb on entering my estate. obviously turned in too fast lost grip headed straight into kerb and the front wheels are now in a nice V. the road is proper iced up...so no idea what the driver was thinking.

miriam2elsa wrote:hi andy what steel wheels did you fit and cost and does 205-55-16 =circumferance of235==40==18 alloys

I got the steel wheels and tyres complete from mytyres.co.uk however I believe they are now sold out.

205/55x16 is about 1.9% smaller in diameter from 235/40x18 so the speedo over-reads but not by much.

The winter tyres have made one hell of a difference. We have about 8" of snow on the side roads here and my 'roc is just sailing through it. My only problem now is clearance as I've heard my front spoiler scrape a few times on the snow

left in the office car park..almost invisible!!

yellowplum wrote:Studded Tyres are illegal not because they are prescribed by law but because of the result of there actions.

"If the tyre causes either damage to the road, or to persons, or to any vehicle using the road. This would cover such instances as if a vehicle with damaged or very oversized tyres which either caught against a person or other vehicle resulting in either damage or injury. Studded tyres also are included in this clause and if used in inappropriate conditions (i.e. where there is no ice or snow) and they damage the road surface then they would be clearly illegal."

I won't argue that this is not the case in some countries. It's seems a bit over the top, however. Even though studded tyres do chip away asphalt more than summer tyres (which also cause roads to wear down), this is considered normal wear and tear in Scandinavia. Of course, in countries where snowfall happens only once or twice a year, the use of studded tyres would also seem a bit over the top. Still, there is no subsitute for studded tyres on icy roads. M+S tyres and Central European "winter" tyres are about as useless as summer tyres in such conditions and even proper, studless winter (ie. snow) tyres struggle a bit even though they've been getting better each year.

If anyone is interested, I can look up some measured figures to demonstrate the performance differences between snow tyres and Central European winter tyres. Winter tyre tests are a yearly thing in Scandinavian car magazines so I just need no dig my archives a bit.

andyd68 wrote: I got the steel wheels and tyres complete from mytyres.co.uk however I believe they are now sold out.

205/55x16 is about 1.9% smaller in diameter from 235/40x18 so the speedo over-reads but not by much.

The winter tyres have made one hell of a difference. We have about 8" of snow on the side roads here and my 'roc is just sailing through it. My only problem now is clearance as I've heard my front spoiler scrape a few times on the snow

Absolutely, I've fitted Conti WinterContact TS830s 205/55x16 on standard VW steels, like you, also from mytyres.co.uk (actually the British affiliate of reifendirekt.de) and I'm really impressed, not just with the ease with which I'm driving through snow, but also (and these are only 205s) with cornering grip on dry roads at low temps.

Not sure I really understand the comments posted above about tyres being nothing to do with getting through winter conditions. Skill and experience helps, sure, but I doubt that many of my Scandinavian acquaintances have put more than a few miles in on snow and ice with ordinary tyres. Also, having worked in Siberia through one winter, I can assure you that winter tyres are used (pretty much exclusively on non-4x4, studs do not seem to be used much in cities). I've had to drive summer tyred hire car BMW 318s on winter ice in Germany a few years ago (Hertz wouldn't always fit summer tyres) and with some mediocre skill and a lot of caution I could just about do it, but the difference between that and a 318 on winters was enormous. I'd rather trust proven tyre technology than some kind of faith in physics beating skills... and as for driving up snow covered slopes which people can't walk up, well.

Forget all of that kerfuffle, bit of old carpet in boot, job done

As an aside, if you are going to Germany, particularly the South, you can specify winter tyres with some hire companies - worth doing, not only because driving is easier, but because you may not be properly insured without them even though the hire car company at Munich airport will cheerfully supply the car...

You don't have to have the winter tyres in Germany, only if you have an accident then you may (will probably) be prosecuted for not having the appropriate tyres.

Don't forget you also need a hi-visibility vest and a first aid pack, on and remember to carry the V5

I thought that my 6 month old Scirroc ticked all the boxes - until it snowed! Yes, it's been the biggest snowfall for 28 years and North Nottinghamshire has been real bad, but I didn't expect to be stuck in my hilly village when every other car on the planet seemed to be able climb the hills. I've had a lot of experience driving in snow, including rallying in heavy snow some years ago but this is my worst experience
It appears that the main problem may be the low-profile tyres and its also been suggested that all the gizmos may be fighting with each other (ESP, ABS, BAS, TCS)!
I am thinking about getting some winter tyres fitted (if there are any left) and wonder if I only need to fit them to the front wheels, as my main problem is traction uphill. Also should I have them fitted to my current wheels (8J x 18" Interlagos Alloys) or do they have to be fitted to different wheels, possibly steel?
Any ideas welcome
From Pete

You have to fit them to all four wheels, the thinner the tyre the better something along the lines of 205/50 or 215/50 to a set of 17s - as you say if you can find any as they have sold out completely in most places.

You will probably find it cheaper to invest in a set of steel wheels or a spare set of alloys - take a look at http://www.rial.de" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for alloys. A set of 16" Bari wheels will set you back around £55+vat in various places. which means you can put a cheaper tyre on the vehicle also.

It will cost you more to buy 18" tyres and keep swapping them twice a year on the same wheels.

kelly wrote:
I am thinking about getting some winter tyres fitted (if there are any left) and wonder if I only need to fit them to the front wheels, as my main problem is traction uphill. Also should I have them fitted to my current wheels (8J x 18" Interlagos Alloys) or do they have to be fitted to different wheels, possibly steel?
Any ideas welcome
From Pete

Front wheels only is a serious no no.

You will have a major grip difference front to back. You'll soon find out the first corner you turn into...you'll be entering a kerb/hedge backwards pretty fast.

So not adviseable at all I'm afraid IMO.

The ABS caught me by surprise a few times in the recent snow/ice. Quite useless and unnerving with a notable banging noise and loss of directional control. I used the manual gearbox override and dropped it down a cog to shed some speed instead. I couldn’t get manual cadence braking to work without the ABS also cutting in.

I didn’t try the handbrake which I must next time to experiment. What a pity there is no way to switch off the ABS.

If u were triggering the abs then u were trying to slow down too fast for grip levels available. Suggest u brake earlier and less aggressively or use winter tyres.

I just let the tyres down a tad and used the DSG paddles to slow down. Don't drive above 30 mph round here due to traffic so slightly deflated does not cause a problem with higher speed running. If the road is white rather than clear or grey slush, switch off the ESP temporarily until back on better roads.

All seemed to work other than the back likes kicking out when gently using the foot brake.

And for fitting narrow tyres to the front only may also induce the same behaviour when braking and result in the back being whipped round when the brakes are applied.

C.

Actus Reus wrote:As an aside, if you are going to Germany, particularly the South, you can specify winter tyres with some hire companies - worth doing, not only because driving is easier, but because you may not be properly insured without them even though the hire car company at Munich airport will cheerfully supply the car...

I would in addition suggest that you check the winter tyres before taking the car. My uncle had a less than pleasant experience with this kind of "service". He and a small group of others were going skiing in the Alps. They had rented a car in Southern Germany for the trip and had specifically opted for winter tyres. During the trip to the Alps they had driven like one would drive a car with winter tyres, passing cars in traffic, laughing at their puny summer tyres which couldn't handle the small amounts of snow on the roads. However, when they were nearing their destination and were climbing steep, snowy roads to reach their hotel, they noticed something was not right. Mind you, these were the type of roads where you have a rock wall on one side, a steep drop down the hill on the other and barely room for two cars side-by-side. So, the fact that the tyres had very little grip during that ascent meant that both driver and passengers had a slightly elevated heart rate during those last few kilometres.

Eventually they made it to the hotel in one piece. Naturally, the first thing they did was checked the tyres on the car - M+S, mud and snow. They immediately decided they were not going to be the ones to drive the car back down the hill, called the rental firm and told them to bring a car with the winter tyres that they'd paid for. After a few hours a guy from the rental company drove a new car to the hotel and hopped into the first car with the intention of driving it back. According to my uncle the guy drove the car to the first turn, seemed to take a moment to assess his chances of surviving the drive downhill, hopped out of the car and called his boss send someone over with snow chains.

M+S Tyres are Winter tyres

RoccoScientist wrote:Mind you, these were the type of roads where you have a rock wall on one side, a steep drop down the hill on the other and barely room for two cars side-by-side.

That's exactly the kind of road where one should drive 'like one would drive a car with winter tires, passing cars in traffic, laughing at their puny summer tires which couldn't handle the small amounts of snow on the roads"!!! The laws of physics are dead. Long live the Formula 1 driver!
Just out of curiosity, did the new car have anything else than M+S written on its tires?

And rest assured, in the towns of Germany during winter you have to struggle to find a car that doesn't have the M+S(winter!!!) tires fitted. So don't even imagine for one second that you will find a German driving on summer tires in a skiing resort (foreign tourists and rental cars excluded) - mind you, winter tires are mandatory by law in this regions during winter months.

Absolutely - I lived in Munich for a year, and all the locals had spare rims in their garages (or stored at a local dealer if you don't have a garage), which come out as soon as things get a bit nippy - usually November time. Hire cars, as I mentioned above, aren't always so equipped as they might have come from somewhere else in the country.