Scirocco Central

TG is losing its edge this series, all be it nice bit of product placement for VW for over 10 mins it started to wear a bt thin, personally would have rather seen the V12 Vantage around the track, on a plus point i think JC summed the tdi up perfectly

Someone else got touched by that depressing end? Top gear is a masterpiece!

I was slightly concerned that it was the end of Top Gear, no usual 'bombshell' ending. Trouble is Clarkson is completely right, the point the really hit home was 'the relentless was on speed'.

I thought they were right about the diesel, it is slow and boring but nothing a map can't change. I've got a 1.9tdi A3 at the minute, in standard form it's completely garbage, with a remap it's more respectable but at least it actually tries now. Before it felt like there was no torque all the way through the rev band. Hopefully the 140CR with a remap will increase the grin factor.

I was quite dissapointed with the 'Rocco segment - would have been nice for them to do an actual test and put it round the track. I also echo what others have said, Topgear seems to have lost its way a bit - this series has been poor compared to previous ones - don't know if its true they've had their budget cut but it seems like it.

Deacon

In defence of the diesel !!!

Jeremy totally loved the oniginal Scirocco which had (if I'm not mistaken) 115bhp from a 1.8L normally aspirated petrol. The lowest powered diesel now has 138bhp.

Actually I agree with Jeremy that you do get that initial serge of torque and then it all goes a bit flat but that's the way diesels are. I'm gradually learning to adapt my thinking and change gear earlier and keep being gobsmaked how quick I'm going without seemingly having tried to get there.

So if you expect a diesel to have the same power curve as a petrol engine, of course you're going to be disapointed. I'm actually quite happy with a car that is as quick as my old 2.8ltr V6 Passat, looks stunning, is on the sub cool wall, and at least twice as frugal. (Even if it does have a canal boat engine)

Spiney wrote:In defence of the diesel !!!

Jeremy totally loved the oniginal Scirocco which had (if I'm not mistaken) 115bhp from a 1.8L normally aspirated petrol. The lowest powered diesel now has 138bhp.

The problem is though that the new 'Rocco probably weighs about 500kg more than the old one, 23bhp to offset that, isn't much

Deacon

Deacon wrote:

Spiney wrote:In defence of the diesel !!!

Jeremy totally loved the oniginal Scirocco which had (if I'm not mistaken) 115bhp from a 1.8L normally aspirated petrol. The lowest powered diesel now has 138bhp.quote]

The problem is though that the new 'Rocco probably weighs about 500kg more than the old one, 23bhp to offset that, isn't much

Deacon

True Deacon but then I did compare the old higest powered Roc with the new lowest powered model.

mk1 is around 855kg so 130bhp/tonne and mk3 tdi is around 1,300kg so 106bhp/tonne

http://www.topgear.com/uk/volkswagen/sc ... gt-2.0-tdi

Fair enough!

Here's the 0-60 times for them though:

Scirocco engine range 1974 – 1993 (includes Mk 1 & 2)

1.3-litre: 60bhp, 97mph, 0-60 14.5.
1.3-litre: 70bhp, 102mph, 0-60 12.9.
1.6-litre: 85bhp, 108mph, 0-60 11.5.
1.6-litre (GTI): 110bhp, 118mph, 0-60 9.2.
1.8-litre (Storm): 112bhp, 118mph, 0-60 8.0.
1.8-litre 16V: 129bhp, 124mph, 0-60 8.3.
1.8-litre 16V: 139bhp, 129mph, 0-60 7.8.

That makes the the 2L TSI a bit faster than anything from that era and the diesel 140 almost as quick as the old GTI.

BTW I'm not trying to make out the diesels are something they are not, just thought that this perspective was interesting.

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I think it gave a very fare review, the diesel is for the people who are feeling sensible the petrol is those who don't care about the current climate
they loved the finish of the car, the niche market of it and the fact that it sets you apart from every other golf gti on the road

and to set it off, if you look behind them when they are doing the cool wall, the roc was in the seriously cool section

Spiney wrote:In defence of the diesel !!!

Jeremy totally loved the oniginal Scirocco which had (if I'm not mistaken) 115bhp from a 1.8L normally aspirated petrol. The lowest powered diesel now has 138bhp.

Actually I agree with Jeremy that you do get that initial serge of torque and then it all goes a bit flat but that's the way diesels are. I'm gradually learning to adapt my thinking and change gear earlier and keep being gobsmaked how quick I'm going without seemingly having tried to get there.

So if you expect a diesel to have the same power curve as a petrol engine, of course you're going to be disapointed. I'm actually quite happy with a car that is as quick as my old 2.8ltr V6 Passat, looks stunning, is on the sub cool wall, and at least twice as frugal. (Even if it does have a canal boat engine)

Thank Christ for that. Finally a bit of perspective. Loads of people on here wittering on about how wonderful petrol engines are and how bad diesels are. At the end of the day it's all about preferences and after driving petrols and being in the anti diesel camp for about twenty years, I now absolutely love the relaxed fuss free grunt and performance from a decent modern diesel. And whichever engine you choose, just remember as a Scirocco owner, you're driving the best bit of motoring sculpture currently avaiable to the average man in the street.

MKandy - you should be pleasantly surprised by the 2.0TDI, it is lightyears ahead of the 1.9TDI in smoothness, quietness, cleanliness and power delivery. The 1.9 seems prehistoric now. The jump from 2.0 PD to 2.0CR is almost as big as the jump from 1.9 to 2.0TDI 5 years ago.

Clarkson was never going to like a Diesel, he hates them all. If you put the 3.0TDI lump in from an A5 (I know it wouldn't fit!) he'd still say it's too slow. When you're paid as much as Clarkson for being an entertaining car hooligan (best job in the world), then paying out an extra £80 a month to fill a 2.0TSI over a 2.0TDI is a no brainer. Like-for-like in power, petrol cannot beat the massive torque surge of a good turbo diesel. They may not be lightning fast from static, but they've got the grunt where it matters for everyday driving that doesn't involve boy racer antics waiting at the traffic lights.

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maisbitt wrote:MKandy - you should be pleasantly surprised by the 2.0TDI, it is lightyears ahead of the 1.9TDI in smoothness, quietness, cleanliness and power delivery. The 1.9 seems prehistoric now. The jump from 2.0 PD to 2.0CR is almost as big as the jump from 1.9 to 2.0TDI 5 years ago.

Clarkson was never going to like a Diesel, he hates them all. If you put the 3.0TDI lump in from an A5 (I know it wouldn't fit!) he'd still say it's too slow. When you're paid as much as Clarkson for being an entertaining car hooligan (best job in the world), then paying out an extra £80 a month to fill a 2.0TSI over a 2.0TDI is a no brainer. Like-for-like in power, petrol cannot beat the massive torque surge of a good turbo diesel. They may not be lightning fast from static, but they've got the grunt where it matters for everyday driving that doesn't involve boy racer antics waiting at the traffic lights.

Yeah I drove a new shape A4 170CR recently, it was near silent and pulled like a train all the way round to...well. I'll stop there.

I can't wait to get mine, regardless of what Clarkson and his fan boys think.

Come on guys, whats the fuzz about what top gear thinks about diesels? I guess you wouldn' t have payed that extra for a diesel in case you cared for performance rather than high mpgs anyway?
Im sure your will love your "canal boat enignes", just a matter of thinking right as you drive. Its a bit like driving a v-twin motorcycle after 1000 miles on a 4 cylinder bike.. Enjoy the torque and the higher mpgs!

kurre3 wrote:Come on guys, whats the fuzz about what top gear thinks about diesels? I guess you wouldn' t have payed that extra for a diesel in case you cared for performance rather than high mpgs anyway?
Im sure your will love your "canal boat enignes", just a matter of thinking right as you drive. Its a bit like driving a v-twin motorcycle after 1000 miles on a 4 cylinder bike.. Enjoy the torque and the higher mpgs!

...and having 2 arms!!

roccott600 wrote:...and having 2 arms!!

Especially that [youtube][/youtube]

maisbitt wrote:Clarkson was never going to like a Diesel, he hates them all.

he was waxing lyrical about the new diesel jag in the show week previous and also in the sunday times