Courtesy car Hit n Run

[maisbitt]

If you are taking on the insurance on your own policy, this is generally when you've been given a courtesy car a long time and you have to arrange it with your own insurer for a proper change of car. This is usually easy if you've been given a car of same or lower insurance group, but for a young driver being given a hefty upgrade (as you have, in the power stakes at least), the insurance will be for them. If you drive another car with your fully comp policy, you are generally only covered 3rd party unless you've made the arrangements with your own insurer.

Chances are the VW garage have asked if your insurance will cover it as you've probably got a lower excess than they have (to save you money). If the bumper only is damaged, pay for the repair rather than cop for the excess - sprayed new bumper should be £600-700.

You will probably take offence here, but your story does seem very sketchy, not sure if I buy it. You seem to lack specific detail, not reporting the incident to the police etc. If you have a partial plate and details like make and model then the Police can narrow it down if it's genuine. Paint transfer from another vehicle would probably be there unless they very carefully backed into you square on.

If you have nothing to hide, tell the police everything, as you should have done within minutes of it happening. Either way it looks like you can't get out of paying unless you have a sharp lawyer who can show that you were not made aware of teh terms of the courtesy car hire, nor signed anything to say you agree to their terms.

[rscut]

Hope you get it sorted pal but I would defo use the fact that they didn't explain the policy to you. If the garage are saying it wasn't it by a car and you defo know it was then ask for an independent assessment? Don't go down without a fight or they will have your pants down! Good luck!

[lewis]

A police officer for 26 years – and if this story was presented to me – then I would be asking a lot more questions.

Incidentally, although I was certainly not a ‘Traffic Officer’ – I think you will find that the circumstances presented, amount to a ‘Reportable Accident’ under The Road Traffic Act, with a legal requirement to report the matter to the police as soon as practicable – or within 24 hours !

The insurance company (yours - or VW's) may point this out to you and ask why you failed to do so.

Good Luck

Jeff

[candyboytsi210]

Rscut. thank you mate , i appreciate your help and feedback.

As for all the comments on why i didn't ring the police etc. I know and its done now.

I just have to focus on whats next, not whats happend..

They didnt explain the policy to me at all. They just said sign didnt give me a chance to read the doc, didn't tell me i was insured on my own policy etc. theyve told me to call my insurance company up, and make a claim through them, what do you guys think?

[maisbitt]

Candyboy,

If they didn't tell you to make arrangements with your own insurance company then as far as i'm concerned, they've insured you on their policy.

Of course this will mean that you will have to play by their terms such as pay their policy's excesses etc, especially if you signed an agreement. Does the signed agreement state you will arrange insurance yourself?

I think it would be unreasonable in your situation to assume you would make your own arrangements (if the signed document doesn't make it clear that you must do so) for 3 reasons:-

1. It would probably cost you a lot to insure on a major performance upgrade, that GTD will be a fair few insurance groups higher than your 122TSI, and as a young driver without loads of experience and plenty of no claims discount the cost of moving up the groups will be significant.

2. For such a short duration of hire, the admin costs of swapping your insurance out would be significant.

3. They didn't tell you.

Did they ask you to provide your insurance policy details before you could drive away their car? If not, then this strongly suggests you were always going to be insured under their policy, otherwise they're letting you leave in an uninsured car - especially if they did not disclose the reg number of the GTD prior to your arrival for you to pre-arrange insurance before you turned up to collect the car.

One way or another, you'll be paying for the cost of the repair or paying the excess on your policy or theirs (what is your excess?). In your situation as a young driver, facing huge premium rises for any loss of no claims, i'd rather take the excess hit on their policy and not lose any of my no claims on my policy. Chances are though, if it's the bumper only, pay for the repair yourself and save a few hundred quid.

I still think their main motivation for getting you to claim on your policy is to save you their hefty excess on their policy.

[Cuprabob]

Just a note to say that most insurance comapnies allow you to put on a courtesy car for up to a week on the understanding teh garage insurance is insuring your car while in their possession. You do still have to tell them the reg number and details though.

I do find it really strange that the garage didn't tell you is was being insured on your own policy. I know we all do it but you should never sign anything without knowing exactly what your signing for. You should also always get a copy as it's effectively a contract

[candyboytsi210]

Maisbitt,

Yeah no doubt it would have cost me a alot to insure the GTD, even if i rang up my insurers i doubt they'd even let me get insured on that model at all to be fair.

They didn't tell me at all during the 4 days i had the vehicle that i was insured on my own policy or ever the past 2 times i've had a car from them that i would be insured on my policy.

No they didn't ask to provide any of my insurance details, for 1 , how would they even know im fully comp or just got temp cover! They told me to sign , but he didn't give me a chance to read at all and also didn't give me a copy of that contract.

My excess is quite abit £650 . I've not got any NCD at the moment however it would come up in the future that i've made a claim which im wary about.

Do you reckon thats there main motivation ?

Cuprabob,

Yeah i totally aggree with you there, i hadn't even spoke to my insurance company. I didn't get notified it would be my own policy.

I mean technically if im not insured under there policy , how could i be under mine?

[maisbitt]

Candyboy: Ask them to confirm all of the billable damage and ask them to price it up.

1. On your insurance you've got to stump up £650, not earn a years no claims this year and have an accident go against you.

2. On their insurance you have to stump up £1000, earn a years no claims (as the claim wouldn't be on your policy), but have an accident against your name which will still put your risk up

3. Pay for the damage yourself, maybe £700-800 (if it is only the bumper to replace and paint), earn a years no claims and not have to inform your insurance.

The coverage is almost definitely on their policy if they haven't taken your insurance details. It would be highly negligent on their part to allow you to drive their £25k car without providing proof of insurance. They must just be giving you the option to see if going through your insurance is cheaper.

Did you even inspect the car for damage before taking it, or did they? You should always in spect the car and be signing with the inspector to establish any damage already present. As you've admitted that an incident happened, you have no wriggle room for the damage present, but you could be copping for additional damage sustained previously.

You have to get them to disclose exactly what you signed to know your obligations following the incident. Maybe you did insure with them (highly likely) but they don't want you to claim from their policy, hence the with-holding of the document that you signed. Ask them for a copy of the document they got you to sign and read through it.

[candyboytsi210]

Hmmm, i dont really know what to do to be honest with you Maisbitt.

They told me the damage will cost £1200 ish, I highly doubt it could be that exspensive for a bumper spray and fitting.?

Yeah they havn't taken my details for my insurance at all. Fair enough they 'might' be giving me an option or they are in abit of a problem themselves?

I didn't inspect it with the service people themselfs but i just jumped in the car and away i went, but there wasn't any damage there.

VW keep stressing me to call my insurance company, but before i do that, i want to know what my rights are and weather i should really do this!
But how can they tell me to claim through my insurance if i was covered by them? surely thats not possible..

What are my options in your eyes?

[scottyroc]

As far as I know, you sign with VW you are insured by VW, they always ask me and I put mine onto my companies fleet policy. Although if the excess on there policy is going to be £1000 then I'd probably just hand them the £1200 and say goodbye, that way there is no claim against your name.

Also, you are quite entitled to go and get the damage repaired at an independent body shop which is what I'd do as VW will just have your pants down, they're not called stealers for nothing.

Good luck anyways....

[candyboytsi210]

Is that possible? Can i get it repaired at an independant body shop? I've had quotes for around 600 ish ...

I want to find out as much info as possible and what i can do before i call my insurers and VW.

What would you suggest i do now?

[rscut]

Don't know if it would work but you could claim to your insurance that it happened last night and ring the police saying the same thing? Tell the garage that's what you are going to do, as its no skin off their nose as long as the car is fixed. I wouldn't enquirer with your insurance until your 100% sure that's what your going to do, as they may make a note of your inquiry and count it as a claim. Ask the garage for a quote for the work, go to an independent garage and get a quote and meet in the middle without insurance been involved?

[a4gee]

If you piss them off they`ll want to take through proper routes. That means they`ll want to contact your insurance and maybe the police.
I don`t see how you can choose where they have to go to repair their own car. That would be ok if they said they`d settle cash in hand etc.
I doubt they`ll do that but you never know.
Can I may ask why you haven`t told your insurance yet? As time is now passing your insurance won`t be too impressed why you`ve left it so long - remember regardless of who`s policy you were on or who`s at fault you have to report any accident to your insurance. They can cancel your policy and make it hard for you to get re-insured if they get a sniff at something suspicious which to me this whole thing is.

You`ve had the accident.
Its going to go against you as there is no one else to claim against.
Only why out is to pay for it cash in hand.
If garage won`t accept that then you need to contact your insurance and they will contact VW insurance and pay them the bill.

But the longer you stall the more questions may be asked by both sides/police.

[candyboytsi210]

I havn't told VW what's happend, they assume a vehicle hasn't hit the car and it may have been another object if you can put it like that.

The bodyshop says another vehicle hasn't been involved in this when it clearly has...

Well i havnt told my insurance due to the fact that im still deciding on what to do, what would you suggest i do tomorrow morning.

The job VW said would cost £1200 , which is actually ridicilous to be fair.

[a4gee]

Well TBH if you don`t want to pay their price you have little option. If they pursue it further your insurance may want to inspect the car to clarify to them that it wasn`t another vehicle and if they agree then that it sorted for you, unless you get other opinions but in any case regardless what hit the car the damage is to be paid by cash or by insurance. Either way you will lose sadly. Only way is to present them with other quotes and see if they will reduce theirs and compare breakdown of each their quote but I bet you you`ll be paying for labour.

The more you wrestle with what hit you the more suspicious someone will get.

[candyboytsi210]

I know. im in a sticky situation at the moment.

what do you think i should do first thing tomorrow morning then a4gee ?

[Cuprabob]

Talking about it on a forum isn't going to get you any further forward. You can only resolve it by talking to the garage although your options are limited.

basically, they can do what they want. It is your responsibility, you damaged their car whil in your care, therefore you must pay for it to be repaired either by handing over teh cash or going through your insurance, if it has been confirmed if you were driving the car on your insurance.

[maisbitt]

Not sure I entirely agree with a4gee on a certain point. If you were agreeing to pay for all damage yourself then your insurance company does not need to know about the accident if it was officially involving no third party (if the Vectra story cannot be confirmed). They need to know of all accidents where an insurance payout was involved or a third party was involved. If you had a small bump at home, like rolling your car into your garage door, you would not have to tell your insurance if you were paying for it yourself etc. You can't keep trying to negotiate indefinitely, you will have to bite the bullet and decide how you're proceeding.

The £1200 repair does seem excessive if it is just to paint and fit a new bumper. You could ask the garage who does their bodyshop repairs (if they don't have their own bodyshop, or if it is part of their dealership group but it's own business entity) and get a quote from them directly (if it is cheaper), that may be agreeable.

It is their choice where the repair is done, not yours - it is their car. If you are involved in a non-fault accident (not in this case, because the mystery Vectra has not been enquired about or identified) you can insist on where the car is repaired, that right is yours as the car owner, not the driver. Their car, their choice.

Find out where they get their repairs done, negotiate the best price for the repair and pay for it, or get clarity that they actually insured you and go through theirs. At this stage I don't think your insurance company would accept you claiming on their policy:-

1. You've waited until now to tell them.
2. You didn't inform them at the time that you were needing insurance of their courtesy car (which is fair enough - you fairly assumed that VW were putting you on their insurance)

[candyboytsi210]

yeah i suppose so, i'm working today so got a appointment to meet the service manager tomorrow morning at 8am. so i can finally sort this whole feud out.

Yeah £1200 is silly. i got a quote for just under £500. i know i cant choose where to repair there vehicle and thats where im stuck otherwise it wouldnt have been a problem to just pay up and get it over with.

i am going to try and negotiate a price , but to be honest by his attitude he wants it to go through insurance somehow , i dont understand why.

I understand your (1.

but (2. is the main factor in this, if there wrong on this part and clearly if he said im insured through my own insurers which i most likley wont be , i cant be insured through VW either, because hes already stated im not.

Maisbitt - i wanna say i appreciate your help in all this.

[a4gee]

If you weren`t insured to drive the courtesy car then does your insurance state you can drive another motor vehicle 3rd party fire and theft?
Usually you get that included with fully comp policies nowadays? So if you are then I would think you are covered by your own insurance? It will go against you in your premium though for the future of course but if VW wants to go through insurance then that is their right. At the end of the day they are doing it by their rules and policies.