Opinions on brakes

[Sanders83]

Hi all,

I was wondering what peoples opinions were on the braking capabilities of the Roc. The only other cars I've driven are a Renault 5, a C2 VTS and the Roc, and I have to say the brakes on the Roc are no match for the Citroen.

How do people here reckon it compares to other perfomance cars they've driven?

[brendan]

drive a cooper s & experience what REAL brakes are like,+ steering, gearchange etc, i couldnt believe how inept the roc was after getting into my new cooper s. what a sharp agile solid drivers car the cooper s is.

[Chungster]

Hi all,

I was wondering what peoples opinions were on the braking capabilities of the Roc. The only other cars I've driven are a Renault 5, a C2 VTS and the Roc, and I have to say the brakes on the Roc are no match for the Citroen.

How do people here reckon it compares to other perfomance cars they've driven?

you have to thnk about the weight of the Roc vs ur previous 2 cars mate. Roc is a lot bigger. the C2 won't need much braking power to stop them cos it's just a tin can.,

having said that..i do think the VAG standard 312mm set up for a lot of cars (incl your Roc) is a bit rubbish. Had them on my GTI and it was pants imo.

My R has the S3/R32 345mm set up which is alot better (also had this fitted to my GTI as a DIY upgrade) and gave me a lot more confidence in the car.

But it depends what you want to do. I suppose the 312mm set up should be ok for 90% of car owners who just pootle around not going that fast. The 10% who likes to drive it properly will find them a bit inadequte.

You can always look into changing the pads to some sportier fast road options.

[Sanders83]

Cheers guys. I expect I'll grab some upgraded pads and discs when the time comes. The tires are great but you really have to ram your heel down to get the ABS to kick in and even that doesn't always work. Any recommendations on discs and pads? I've always heard EBC are good.

Cheers

[Shaun]

drive a cooper s & experience what REAL brakes are like,+ steering, gearchange etc, i couldnt believe how inept the roc was after getting into my new cooper s. what a sharp agile solid drivers car the cooper s is.

LOL, you sold your Scirocco months back but still come back to moan about it

[maisbitt]

How big are the discs on a Mini Cooper S? It's got a lot less momentum to rein in than a Roc that probably weighs a good 25% more. The standard brakes on the Roc are fine for a legally driven road car (unless you are a regular autobahnner), which is why VW don't put monster discs on as standard - if you start putting it through it's paces on a track or if you enjoy driving 2 feet off the car in fronts bumper then you'll find them inadequate.

You can't compare a mini cooper S to a 140TDI Roc, they're 2 completely different cars. One is a sporty looking car that is a good practical everyday choice, but otherwise drives like a slightly warm hatch, and the other is a fun nippy little hot hatch favoured by junior estate agents and PAs.

Honda Civic S or R type brakes are like they have wagon-wheel biscuits for discs.

[scimitar]

Always used EBC pads on my scimitars- always v. impressed- green ones good for road use. The abrasive coating to clean up the discs worked v. well

[fun meter]

If your gonna track your car, or remap it, the standard gear is a bit crap. I found them okay for the road, but they weren't progressive.

Recommendations from here and AmD was for some Mintex 1144's. They are more noisy for normal driving - which I think juniorbanks mentioned adding shims, but not unbearable. A lot better on track, they actually work after a few laps. Still a little fade, but you expect it really. On the road there good too. The bite is much better and braking is more progressive. For about £200 total, its quite a decent upgrade.

Have to look at opportunity cost of new complete brake setup. A second hand R setup would be a improvement (with some 1144s). But Porsche (etc...) ones sometimes need modifying (and personally think doesnt look right). Brand new setup from Forge/VWR/Capro is gonna cost £1200+, 6 Pot AP's probably £2000 after the work. I dont think you'll get full benefit or usage out of them.

[Buckster]

drive a cooper s & experience what REAL brakes are like,+ steering, gearchange etc, i couldnt believe how inept the roc was after getting into my new cooper s. what a sharp agile solid drivers car the cooper s is.

Girls car though.

[panhandle]

^^Yep, dont care what anyone says, Mini's are for girls, end of. Any bloke who thinks he looks cool in a mini is in a very small minority (a minority that doesnt include any girls either).

I found the brakes to be decent when my mate thought he would bring us from 80 to 20 confusing the brake for a clutch - idiot. That will be the last time he drives it.

TBH though I have no real comparison but they did sure bring us to a stop fairly rapido so got every confidence that when I need to use them properly they will be sound, although might need to change the pads now though

[wigit]

the set up on the R is a nice progressive set up on the road and a good cost effective upgrade for those running 312s, loads of sets out there from S3, Rs etc and its pretty much plug and play (prob just need to get some R rear grit guards) all be it you can mod the stock ones, downside is they are a bit heavy and limited after market pad choice (especially if you want more track bias DaveB works not mine ) and still twin pots, that said really nice on a b road as car feels very fluid

the problem with the 312s is the feel when you hit the pedal is not at all progressive and car feels snatchy, the issue isn't so much the stopping power but how it gets there, more noticable on the golf than the rocco, never run out of stopping power, oddly they behave better on track when you are more on/off the brakes you'll just eat the pads

bbk is a serious investment, for me big isn't always best in terms of how the car feels (looks yes), having done 600 miles on £2.5k of project mu's on a golf i couldn't live with them on a daily especially in wet or damp way to aggressive

i went for the boxter/caymen upgrade as good comprmise, 312 disks are cheap as chips and plenty of pad choice (mintex 1144s are cheaper than for R setup) and they will be running 1144s as can withstand a bit of heat when you venture onto private road,should be on in next few weeks

drive a cooper s & experience what REAL brakes are like,+ steering, gearchange etc, i couldnt believe how inept the roc was after getting into my new cooper s. what a sharp agile solid drivers car the cooper s is.

sorry should have bought a clio rs if you want a proper handling hot hatch, turbo 4 pot power in the next generation should make these tunable

[harryc]

I find the standard brakes no way near effective enough. Looking for an R setup of Porsche setup. Whats the cost vs performance vs fitting like for the two? Any guides and part number lists on here?

[Pie n chips]

I dunno the brakes seem more than upto the job of hauling a mid sized coupe to me - BBK's are for boys with small discs IMHO (see what I did there?)

A good pad choice - Ferodo/Porterfield/Pagid and some Motul RBF600 fluid and you'll stop well and good

[harryc]

To me there isnt enough urgency in the braking and i feel that it lacks bite. Might try pads but if there is a bolt on bigger calliper and disc conversion then that seems like a good idea.

[wigit]

I dunno the brakes seem more than upto the job of hauling a mid sized coupe to me - BBK's are for boys with small discs IMHO (see what I did there?)

A good pad choice - Ferodo/Porterfield/Pagid and some Motul RBF600 fluid and you'll stop well and good

Agree to disagree stock set up as calipers are not progressive at all, R set up on Golf/Rocco is fair more reassuring, for me stock set is marginal

That said don't believe big is best either as you just end up with a skittish rear end under braking

For me porkers are ideal for fast road on stock discs, and not to bad on track, however, they may get upgraded with new direction for new year

Having had to try them in anger in France due to 'la muppette' I reckon we would have been picking our GTI out of the drivers door

[harryc]

Wigit do you have a build thread outlining the porker brake conversion with costs etc? Totally agree on the braking, i often get the feeling the car isn't going to stop in time when approaching round abouts.

[wigit]

Wigit do you have a build thread outlining the porker brake conversion with costs etc? Totally agree on the braking, i often get the feeling the car isn't going to stop in time when approaching round abouts.

still working on the build thread which is sat at June 2009, you need mounting brackets, I got front set up and rear GTI set up for about 450 notes with disks off a friend, then had them refurbed, you want black calipers from boxter not red from boxster s, just added some pads and Porsche damping shims to that, ultimate home is on our GTI for them.

There is a thread on them in daveb developed the kit

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... =34&t=7687" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mintex pads are a bit noisy but cope well, will prob try somembrembo slots when discs are shot, car sailed through MOT with them.

[harryc]

Thanks for that, just to confirm they are the boxter rear twin pot callipers (any year?) and custom mounting brackets then they will mount on any rocco 312 discs you choose?

[wigit]

Thanks for that, just to confirm they are the boxter rear twin pot callipers (any year?) and custom mounting brackets then they will mount on any rocco 312 discs you choose?

They are fronts, daveb had the brackets fabricated and are about £250

[harryc]

Ok thanks for that, calliper part numbers 996.351.426 / 425.? SO many different porker brakes out there! Can these callipers be run with the bigger R discs as well?