To Dsg or Not To Dsg

[RedarT]

Thanks for your answers,

@robrain
Fuel consumption is definately less when cruising a descent in Neutral than in gear, nomatter how low the rpms are. This is caused by the increased friction not only from the car, transmission and gearbox but from the engines' parts that have to move faster than when idling. So more fuel is consumed.

As an answer to your "C" paragraph, i think that it is bad to tow a car with a dsg when in neutral, when the engine is off, because there is no oil supply to the gears. I am not sure if it is wrong to cruise in neutral (if at all possible with dsg, Kev i think you are correct, i am afraid there is a restriction)

[RW1]

Its not way I would drive on roads as its a dangerous way to drive at 60 - 70mph if in an emergency you need power out of the situation where brakes/steering are not the best option. DSG takes time to react.

My logs from my 1.4TSi DSG as an example showing typical injector timings:

- at idle : 0.76 msecs

- at light down hill cruise : 1.79 ms ( 15% throttle)

- overrun, throttle shut : 0.00 msecs

- Full 100% throttle in 2nd gear at 4,000 - 5,000 rpm : 6.88 msecs

C.

[robrain]

RedarT - this is a religious argument, taking place on every driving forum across the land, but rest assured, the fuel injectors are not injecting fuel when you're coasting in gear. The engine turns, but there's no fuel going in (see http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/ho ... el-economy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, for example).

My mildly facetious comments about Vmax are also a key thing - unless you want to accelerate down the slope, you will be needing to brake. If you need to brake, you might as well have some engine braking.

Taken together, coasting in neutral rarely helps and most of the time simply reduces the amount of control you have over the car.

[RedarT]

@robrain

I agree that when the slope is steep enough, then the engine will actually only brake the car, and as you said there will be no fuel injected in the cylinders. But when you are on a slope that is just enough to help you maintain your speed in neutral, i.e. gravity component is equal or slightly higher than air and rolling resistance, then you will likely consume more fuel than just with the engine idling. You can try it yourself and check the instant fuel consuption reading.

The fact that cruising in neutral can be dangerous, in my opinion, depends on many factors such as road conditions, traffic etc...

[robrain]

(must go to lunch now, so last comment for a while ). The instantaneous fuel consumption gauge is not in fact typically a direct judge of fuel consumption and cannot be used for these types of comparison. RW1's data is key to supporting both of our sides of this particular argument - but most of us don't have a copy of vagcom to do this kind of test for our day-to-day journeys!

Perhaps a physicist amongst us could work out some gradient and speed combinations to see whether a law-abiding citizen could take advantage of neutral cruising in real life. The fact that idling does consume fuel, whilst cruising in gear does not means that the slope must be just a bit steeper than a simple calculation would suggest for neutral to 'win'.

Either way, I enjoyed the DSG so much I specced it for my car .

[danny-russell]

I test drove a 170 gt with DSG, and its the first flappy paddle thats really worked for me. The gear changes are smooth and predictable, making for a great ride. That being said - Smooth and predictable isn't what I wanted from a scirocco, and i felt that if i bought the DSG it would just end up in automatic mode (not even bother with the paddles) all the time. Test drive one, they do work - just not for me

[skyblues11]

what i mean Toonman555a, is this;

i am appraoching a large roundabout, on manual mode and on say, 6th gear.
i would slow down and the DSG would downshift automatically, to 3rd. sometimes 2nd.
however, i can see that the road ahead is clear and accelerate. what happens then is i am revving the bulls off the engine. This is why i keep my eyes on the MFD so that i can upshift quickly enough to prevent this revving.

my beef is, why don't the DSG let me downshift manually, especially since its a sequential anyway and i cannot select any gear randomly.

i would have prefered it like this; on 6th, downshift to 5th manually, then again click to 4th, road is clear and not need to downshift, accelerate on 4th and revv up, upshift to 5th etc.

[fun meter]

I prefer manual. DSG is still too "automatic" for my liking. I'd only buy paddle gearbox in a ferrari or lambo, because they are not designed as automatic. Manual gives you more control overall, because your doing the work not a computer.

[axisofunity]

DSG as a Factory option, totally love it. D is perfect for London Driving and really maximises smoothness, reduction in noise and so forth. S is great for country roads, getting the power down and right on the bends and ensuring you maintain maximum control around a track. M is then the step above, with full manual control (but none of the downside of damage if you downshift too much) you can control 95% of what you could in a manual, but safer and without a clutch. Your response time in M on the DSG will be IMHO just as good as a manual as the DSG switchs damn quick (VW even claim a .1 reduction in 0-62 I think on the 2.0TSI DSG compared the manual).

Finally, it makes great exhaust noise and I have no probs except for some reason in S coming to a roundabout it tends to shift down to 2 quite quickly, then be a tiny bit hesistant to pull away again if the revs have fallen almost to 1 zone. In these cases I sometimes use M, but overall no issue.

Love the DSG, wish it had bigger paddles lik the Boxter Spyder PDK though.

[SmiffyDSG]

I love the DSG and for me at least, I can't imagine driving the manual to be half as much fun. It's rapid enough in M mode but stick it into S and it turns into an animal. The blipping of the throttle on the downshifts in S are the iceing on the cake. I agree that the paddles could be bigger though.

[gibbsy]

I've not got a Rocco yet and will almost certainly be ordering one next January. My choice will be a DSG, I have a severe back problem and driving a manual is really becoming too much of a pain. I've had two autos in the past, a Mazda 626 with a three speed box and a Ford Cougar V6.

I approached my local VW dealer and they were very happy to give an hour's test drive in a 170 DSG. Thought I woudn't try the paddles but was urged to do so. Glad I did, gave it a real blast over the Brecon Beacons. Plenty of control the box worked really well, whether I get to use it we the car arrives I don't know, I'll have to ask the wife (she thinks it's her car as I went in to order a Golf GTD )

[danny-russell]

If only the paddles were bigger and a nicer feel, as opposed to small plastic paddles

[Actus Reus]

You can fit aftermarket extensions to the paddles - however, I'm not sure I'll do this as the paddles are attached to the wheel, and I'm not sure if they might get in the way when putting some lock on. As stated above, the Porsche ones, which are on the steering column, are the absolute business.

[nutkins]

One thing I find slightly annoying about the DSG that it will sometimes drop in to 1st gear (this is when in manual mode) for a slow corner, when in a manual you'd leave it in 2nd, maybe slip the clutch a little bit. What's even more strange is that in 'D' it will leave it in 2nd a lot longer (and seemingly slip the clutches).. You can test this next time you're in traffic. If you're crawling along with no throttle input in D it will say 'D2' on the MFD. Knock it over to manual and it will switch straight to 1st, even if only on the MFD. Weird and slightly annoying.

[Shaun]

Perhaps a DSG reset might help with this, mine really does not go into 1st unless its nearly at a dead stop

One thing I find slightly annoying about the DSG that it will sometimes drop in to 1st gear (this is when in manual mode) for a slow corner, when in a manual you'd leave it in 2nd, maybe slip the clutch a little bit. What's even more strange is that in 'D' it will leave it in 2nd a lot longer (and seemingly slip the clutches).. You can test this next time you're in traffic. If you're crawling along with no throttle input in D it will say 'D2' on the MFD. Knock it over to manual and it will switch straight to 1st, even if only on the MFD. Weird and slightly annoying.

[nutkins]

Mine will hold 2nd till almost a stop but only in 'D', does yours hold it in manual mode too? By reset do you mean the hold the accelerator before starting thing? Or a dealer reset?

[Anakin]

The Rocco R is my second Car with DSG, first was my previous R32. I love em to bits.
Something people havent mentioned here a DSG car will beat a manual car in any 0-60 , 1/4mile sprint etc and it will do so convincingly !
IMO it takes time to learn how to use the DSG box more than you will get in a Test Drive.
But I do understand its a Marmite thing and some people just like the mecanical clunk and more direct personal control of the gears. Maybe im just lazy

[Shaun]

Mine will hold 2nd till almost a stop but only in 'D', does yours hold it in manual mode too? By reset do you mean the hold the accelerator before starting thing? Or a dealer reset?

i mean a dealer reset, it can be done with vcds too

[boardlord]

Scirocco DSG on order, currently mk6 golf GTI DSG. First DSG and absolutely love it, only issues i've noticed in a year are;
When using the paddles in manuel the box changes up for you at the rev limit at the same time as you causing you to jump 2 gears... Very irritating.
Secondly during the snow last year, most annoying that the car will NOT allow to to pull away in any gear other than 1st.

Point to note, my other half hated it when we test drove the golf but a year down the line .... Her 1st words when we were looking for a new car were "It MUST have DSG"