1.4 tsi 160 missfire

[motorsportmatt]

Hey has anyone suffered a missfire when cold yet? mine is a 2010 car and from cold for 3-4 mins until the temp needle moves the car hesitates and jerks (only when 1/4 throttle and using the super charger part)
Took to the sealers who took my car home to check from cold at my request, said they didnt feel a thing! there is a software update soon which gives you conditions when it should missfire (i take it vw are aware of it) i know this because i looked at the technical bulletin, but on this occasion it didnt do it.
So stuff the dealers as they only look at the (computer says no screen) and im going to check it myself, god help them if i find something under the bonnet.
Still waiting for modified vw parts to cure my juddering clutch.
Not at all happy with the iroc im afraid........
anyone going to castle combe at weekend?
Matt

[RW1]

Hi Matt,

Had the same about two to six weeks ago. Initially started off with an exhaust stinking badly of rotten eggs when setting off. The engine was about fully warmed up. Then it started to murmur a misfire about 2 minutes after from cold start each morning for a minute or two. Over a couple of weeks it progressively got worse. Eventually got the Exhaust Gas warning lamp flashing twice for two 10 second periods with the engine shaking badly - again at about 2 to 3 minutes from cold start. So decided to take it into the dealers as my VCDS PC wasn't working. My initial thought was a coil pack was playing up, so did they.

When I got there, I asked in the Parts Dept how many coil packs they had "in-stock" for the the coil pack part number. Answer 27 off! That tells a story.

They scratched their heads as there were all sorts of faults on the diagnostics. So despite an Exhaust Gas Warning light, nothing was pin-pointed as all were showing intermittent fault codes and not necessarily related to the engine! Central Locking over heated, water coolant warning ..... (I know the Scirocco was totally fault free from a total check in early June).

They wanted the Scirocco back in the workshop to load the new software and keep in over night for a cold start. Went home with the ECU faults cleared down. Read up about the software and it deadens the full throttle opening setting until higher rpm is achieved, something like 4,500rpm+ iirc. It may also adjust the setting points of the knock senors the engine ECU determines ignition timing from. I thought........ having none of this and got the VCDS PC up and working.

The following day the Scirocco did the jerking again but no warning lamp. Diagnostics showed this.....

VCDS
Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
Version: Release 10.6.0
Ross-Tech
Dealer/Shop Name:
Workshop Code: 000 00000

Diagnostic Trouble Code Report
Monday,12,July,2010,19:34:28:23160
VIN: License Plate:
Mileage: Repair Order:
Control Module Part Number: 03C 906 027 G HW: 03C 906 027 F
Component and/or Version: MED17.5.5 G 4009
Software Coding: 0000077
Work Shop Code: WSC 00020 790 00000

2 Faults Found:

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 7832 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2008.14.02
Time: 17:01:01
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2439 /min
Load: 54.9 %
Speed: 41.0 km/h
Temperature: 39.0°C
Temperature: 23.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

000770 - Cylinder 2: Misfire Detected
P0302 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 7832 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2008.14.02
Time: 17:01:01
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2439 /min
Load: 54.9 %
Speed: 41.0 km/h
Temperature: 39.0°C
Temperature: 23.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

One of three things on number 2 cylinder then? ...... coil pack, injector, spark plug.

Took this data to the dealers and cancelled overnight visit and the software update. They appeared not happy to update the ECU either !
Informed them I had VCDS diagnostics and would monitor it until the problem became more definite. They were quite happy with that. And it means the Scirocco isn't off the road for me.

When it does happen again and I get "No.2 cylinder misfire" showing, I will first swap out the No.2 coil pack for number 3 (Tool puller T10094A) and see if it travels. If not the problem, then check the No. 2 plug gap as gapping has been found on rogue spark plugs in some 1.4TSi from the factory. If not that, then it will be upto the dealer to sort the injector.
So far the Scirocco has behaved impeccably since.
Cleared the faults. It hasn't done the jerking since. No logged faults in the memory so far, now 10 days since the last jerky event. The only thing I can think of is that all this happened during the recent hot and dry spell with temps of 24'C - 27'C. The day it first rained last week, the jerking cold starts stopped and the engine has run normally since. The key bit is dry air previously rather than damp air now.

It's still the same tank of petrol (Texaco 97), same ambient air temperatures when the fault was noted, same driving routes on cold start.

Chris

[daz3031]

I've had exactly the same issue this week. I was away on holiday for 2 weeks, arrived home and went to start car on saturday. Started no problem and no warning lights on. As i drove off it was hesitant under acceleration, shuddering and the engine / exhaust light came on. The light would alternate between flashing and staying on constant. Didn't go far on saturday then had exactly the same on Sunday.

Drove to work on Monday which is 25 miles with the light on constant but seemed to drive ok. Got out of work and started it - no warning light and driving perfect. Seems to have cleared after getting a decent run following 2 weeks of being parked up

It's in getting it's first service today and they are checking it for fault codes.

[RW1]

Found the situation relating to my little jerky problem above at last......

Not a fix but at least I know VW have generally recognised it on 10th June 2010 and are trying to fix it.

Symptom:
The cold engine starts well and runs correctly at idle speed. Only when accelerating the engine starts to judder between 2 and 4 minutes. In measuring blocks 15 and 16, misfiring is visible.

Remedial Action:
Repairs postponed. A new software for the engine control unit is in preparation.[/quote]

Coolant temp under 50'C and right fault codes on mine ......
So a right decision to postpone the visit and not to let the dealers loose on the Scirocco
(Still not had the fault back again since)

-----------------------------------------

Also two similar problems .........

1 Symptom:The engine runs erratically, the exhaust warning light is on and an entry on misfiring is logged on any of the engine ECU Measuring in Blocks 15 Field 1, 2 & 3 & Block 16, field 1.

The general fix is a new coil pack that has been introduced on the 1.4TSi 160ps - engine code CAV from Wk36/09. It has part number - 036 905 715F, £34. Coil pack part numbers are clearly visible on top of the engine if the top plastic cover is removed.

2 Symptom: The exhaust warning light is on and the following entry is logged in the engine control unit, fault code 00262 - intake manifold pressure/air pressure G71, implausible signal.

The general fix is an update the engine control unit. Existing software standards are G2135, G2523, G2880, G3094,
G3428, G4009. This is revised to software - BA5860, released Wk12/2010. (Software standard can be found on the Engine ECU screen in the "component:" field if you have access to VCDS - Ross Tech diagnostic software).
NB. After the update the gear indicator is activated on vehicles with manual gearbox and road map dash insert (white background lighting). The gear indicator cannot be deactivated.

C.

[davo160]

Found the situation relating to my little jerky problem above at last......

Not a fix but at least I know VW have generally recognised it on 10th June 2010 and are trying to fix it.

Symptom:
The cold engine starts well and runs correctly at idle speed. Only when accelerating the engine starts to judder up to a coolant temperature of about 35°C. In measured value blocks 15 and 16 misfiring is visible.
If misfiring is logged, also use the extended environmental conditions to narrow down this complaint.

Measure:
Postpone repairs. A new software for the engine control unit is in preparation.

Coolant temp under 50'C and right fault codes on mine ......
So a right decision to postpone the visit and not to let the dealers loose on the Scirocco
(Still not had the fault back again since)

-----------------------------------------

Also two similar problems .........

1 Symptom:The engine runs erratically, the exhaust warning light is on and an entry on misfiring is logged on any of the engine ECU Measuring in Blocks 15 Field 1, 2 & 3 & Block 16, field 1.

The general fix is a new coil pack that has been introduced on the 1.4TSi 160ps - engine code CAV from Wk36/09. It has part number - 036 905 715F, £34. Coil pack part numbers are clearly visible on top of the engine if the top plastic cover is removed.

2 Symptom: The exhaust warning light is on and the following entry is logged in the engine control unit, fault code 00262 - intake manifold pressure/air pressure G71, implausible signal.

The general fix is an update the engine control unit. Existing software standards are G2135, G2523, G2880, G3094,
G3428, G4009. This is revised to software - BA5860, released Wk12/2010. (Software standard can be found on the Engine ECU screen in the "component:" field if you have access to VCDS - Ross Tech diagnostic software).
NB. After the update the gear indicator is activated on vehicles with manual gearbox and road map dash insert (white background lighting). The gear indicator cannot be deactivated.

C.

Is there ant way to get access to this tech bulletens other than working for VW !??

[davo160]

Hi Matt,

Had the same about two to six weeks ago. Initially started off with an exhaust stinking badly of rotten eggs when setting off. The engine was about fully warmed up. Then it started to murmur a misfire about 2 minutes after from cold start each morning for a minute or two. Over a couple of weeks it progressively got worse. Eventually got the Exhaust Gas warning lamp flashing twice for two 10 second periods with the engine shaking badly - again at about 2 to 3 minutes from cold start. So decided to take it into the dealers as my VCDS PC wasn't working. My initial thought was a coil pack was playing up, so did they.

When I got there, I asked in the Parts Dept how many coil packs they had "in-stock" for the the coil pack part number. Answer 27 off! That tells a story.

They scratched their heads as there were all sorts of faults on the diagnostics. So despite an Exhaust Gas Warning light, nothing was pin-pointed as all were showing intermittent fault codes and not necessarily related to the engine! Central Locking over heated, water coolant warning ..... (I know the Scirocco was totally fault free from a total check in early June).

They wanted the Scirocco back in the workshop to load the new software and keep in over night for a cold start. Went home with the ECU faults cleared down. Read up about the software and it deadens the full throttle opening setting until higher rpm is achieved, something like 4,500rpm+ iirc. It may also adjust the setting points of the knock senors the engine ECU determines ignition timing from. I thought........ having none of this and got the VCDS PC up and working.

The following day the Scirocco did the jerking again but no warning lamp. Diagnostics showed this.....

VCDS
Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
Version: Release 10.6.0
Ross-Tech
Dealer/Shop Name:
Workshop Code: 000 00000

Diagnostic Trouble Code Report
Monday,12,July,2010,19:34:28:23160
VIN: License Plate:
Mileage: Repair Order:
Control Module Part Number: 03C 906 027 G HW: 03C 906 027 F
Component and/or Version: MED17.5.5 G 4009
Software Coding: 0000077
Work Shop Code: WSC 00020 790 00000

2 Faults Found:

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 7832 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2008.14.02
Time: 17:01:01
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2439 /min
Load: 54.9 %
Speed: 41.0 km/h
Temperature: 39.0°C
Temperature: 23.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

000770 - Cylinder 2: Misfire Detected
P0302 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 7832 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2008.14.02
Time: 17:01:01
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2439 /min
Load: 54.9 %
Speed: 41.0 km/h
Temperature: 39.0°C
Temperature: 23.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V

One of three things on number 2 cylinder then? ...... coil pack, injector, spark plug.

Took this data to the dealers and cancelled overnight visit and the software update. They appeared not happy to update the ECU either !
Informed them I had VCDS diagnostics and would monitor it until the problem became more definite. They were quite happy with that. And it means the Scirocco isn't off the road for me.

When it does happen again and I get "No.2 cylinder misfire" showing, I will first swap out the No.2 coil pack for number 3 (Tool puller T10094A) and see if it travels. If not the problem, then check the No. 2 plug gap as gapping has been found on rogue spark plugs in some 1.4TSi from the factory. If not that, then it will be upto the dealer to sort the injector.
So far the Scirocco has behaved impeccably since.
Cleared the faults. It hasn't done the jerking since. No logged faults in the memory so far, now 10 days since the last jerky event. The only thing I can think of is that all this happened during the recent hot and dry spell with temps of 24'C - 27'C. The day it first rained last week, the jerking cold starts stopped and the engine has run normally since. The key bit is dry air previously rather than damp air now.

It's still the same tank of petrol (Texaco 97), same ambient air temperatures when the fault was noted, same driving routes on cold start.

Chris

Did you sort this Chris ??

[RW1]

It has gone away. Its associated with humidity below 20% , air temps at 12'C - 30'C, engine cylinder carbon build up and warm-up temp of the engine at 2 to 4 mins. Since mid July its stopped and the weather has kept humidity up above 25%. No misfires recorded. No software update yet. Current update doesn't solve this one.

C.

[daz3031]

Anyone had any further issues or a solution to this yet? My car has now had a software update which had no effect, it went back in about a week ago and this time a fault code had been logged - misfire cylinders 1 & 2. They replaced the coil pack and it was ok for a day or two before the fault reappeared. Now it is the worse it's been and the exhaust check light and EPC warning lights were both on tonight. Doesn't just do it when it's cold now either but still seems to be intermittent. Tonight is the worse it's been by a considerable amount and was severly down and power and the engine sounded very rough.

Going to book it in to VW first thing tomorrow and hopefully get a fix this time.

[RW1]

The only other component in this to go is the injectors unless its an "odd" fault.

There is a batch of injectors made between Wk37 & Wk47 in 2009 marked 2599 thro' 3309 (where 2599 represents 259th day of 2009.) Most likely on build complete Sciroccos between Wk42/09 & Wk01/10 approximately. (The engines components appear to be pre-dated by approximately 5 weeks form the production build complete week)

Unsure of build?
Scirocco, determine the exact day and build week number from here.
Engine, lift off the engine cover and look at the four coil packs. In the bottom right corner nearest the electrical connection, the packs are dated like "35/09" meaning Wk35 of 2009. That should give you some idea of when the engine sub-components were made.

A prerequisite of this injector change for misfiring is to update the software in the engine ECU. This is visble in the VCDS Engine ECU "Open Controller" screen in the right hand side of the "Component" field as G5859 or G5860. (It was G4008/G4009 for this period previously.)

If the engine is misfiring on one or more cylinders, then they are to replace all 4 injectors if they carry a day/year stamps in the range 2599 thro' 3309.

Did they do a compression check last time? The failures going down this path are showing compression gone in the affected cylinder(s). May be worth suggesting it to them instead of solely following the diagnostics.

Regular misfiring has lead to washed clean cylinder walls (of oil) resulting in piston rings breaking. Don't push the engine until its fixed.

On another.... I've had fuel problems with one particular brand I've regularly used. Engine was a little bit rough but no misfiring logged as fault codes. Changed petrol brand and the 1.4TSi engine runs much smoother. Did this sometime after the incidents I wrote above but its not related. (Same on two other cars. Both they ran better too.)

C.

[trix]

There is a batch of injectors made between Wk37 & Wk47 in 2009 marked 2599 thro' 3309 (where 2599 represents 259th day of 2009.) Most likely on build complete Sciroccos between Wk42/09 & Wk01/10 approximately. (The engines components appear to be pre-dated by approximately 5 weeks form the production build complete week)

Unsure of build?
Scirocco, determine the exact day and build week number from here.
Engine, lift off the engine cover and look at the four coil packs. In the bottom right corner nearest the electrical connection, the packs are dated like "35/09" meaning Wk35 of 2009. That should give you some idea of when the engine sub-components were made.

for example my 2009 week 41 the coil packs are 36/09

[ZephyR]

On another.... I've had fuel problems with one particular brand I've regularly used. Engine was a little bit rough but no misfiring logged as fault codes. Changed petrol brand and the 1.4TSi engine runs much smoother. Did this sometime after the incidents I wrote above but its not related. (Same on two other cars. Both they ran better too.)

C.

Errr, can these brands of fuel be named for other's benefit - or might that lead to trouble ?

[RW1]

Thought I had Zeph in another topic here but it appears I wrote it elsewhere about my Corrado.

Ran the Scirocco initial during running-in on Texaco 97RON.
Then changed at 2,000 miles to Tesco's 99RON, initially it was fine.
It seem to deteriorate in running smoothness about 3 months ago in all three cars. (Also reported by other Corrado owners).

Now started using Texaco 97RON again and all three seem to have gone back to normal.

C.

[daz3031]

Thanks for the information. My car was delivered in April 2009 so cannot have injectors from the batch you highlight and it has been run on Shell V-power since day one.

Going to phone the garage when they open. I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers

[davo160]

I had my injectors swopped first then software update didnt cure . it coil packs and plugs has so far (touch wood! ) will be intresting to find out what happens as this fault is seeming to be VERY common on 1.4tsi !!!

[daz3031]

The latest update is they are still working on it and are also on to VW technical support. Looks like i have them scratching their heads! Fingers crossed it gets sorted soon.

[motorsportmatt]

Thanks for all the help on this matter guys, the missfire does not show up on their test equipment or does not it flag any fault codes but i can feel it and i know its there, the car feels wooly and not free reving, got clutch changed tho but still not 100% cured the clutch judder so at wits end with this car and poss will be trading it in already, also main beam stalk now packed up too, mega dissapointed with this car.

[davo160]

Thanks for all the help on this matter guys, the missfire does not show up on their test equipment or does not it flag any fault codes but i can feel it and i know its there, the car feels wooly and not free reving, got clutch changed tho but still not 100% cured the clutch judder so at wits end with this car and poss will be trading it in already, also main beam stalk now packed up too, mega dissapointed with this car.

Mine didnt either mate so if no fault code ther CANNOT BE A PROBLEM good old VW dealers eh !
Supprised they havent said "its the fuel you are using" whatever that is or "it seems fine to us"
mine was just the same but plugs and coils seem to have cured it so far so good

Hope you get it sorted mate . I felt exactly the same as you !!

[david25]

If you're engine starts ticking like the air-con compressor engaging, you could have a more serious problem.

I've just posted the below text in this thread http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... f=2&t=6087" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

================================

Hi everyone, I'm a new poster (someone on http://uk-mkivs.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; mentioned this forum after reading about my problems).

I've just had a new engine fitted on my GT160 Golf, after it lost power with the EML EPC lights coming on.

The problem wasnt fixed with coil packs, so the dealer carried out a compression test and found number one cylinder bad. Further diagnostics revealed a cracked piston, broken piston rings and scored bore.

From the reports in Germany, the problem is crankshaft bearing play, this means the piston becomes "de-centered" and starts wearing the bore, eventually you run out of piston ring and lose compression.

If you starts hearing a ticking noise (like the air con engaging) and together occasional loss of power, then you could have a problem.

This problem effects both 122 and 160ps engines across all VAG platforms.

This link is in German, but you'll get the idea using Google Translate;

http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/liste-al ... 83186.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[daz3031]

Finally got my car back after 2 and a half weeks. Just as well as the Sharan courtesy car was starting to crack me up! The car has a new cylinder head gasket fitted and that has fixed the problem, although 2.5 weeks is a bit excessive for a head gasket. Think they really struggled to diagnose it and depended heavily on VW technical support. Got a nice bottle of champagne left in the car by means of an apology which was a nice touch.

Drives fine now although I have lost confidence in the car somewhat. I know these things happen but you have to wonder if there is an underlying fault in my engine to cause it. Anyway it's now been traded in but was planning to change soon before all this happened anyway I required something a bit bigger and with 5 doors again plus I do miss the torque from a diesel so I now have on order an............Octavia VRS CR 170. Got a great deal as they have the VAT free deal and interest free credit available right now. Won't get it until early 2011 as it's a factory order so have a few months left as a Scirocco driver.

It's been fun............

Cheers

[people_trees]

Finally got my car back after 2 and a half weeks...... Drives fine now although I have lost confidence in the car somewhat.

Have just started to have the same problem.
This will be the 3rd time my car is back at VW Chiswick in the 11 month life of my car.
They tell me it will be £10/day to insure me on their 'courtesy' car!

I've already paid out twice for one and really don't want to do it again
the last 2 visits were due to the windows spontaneously opening, I lost a bag containing a £340 camera then, and an old ipod that I kept in the armrest - so feel that my losses are enough already.
I too have lost faith in this car and the impenetrable customer service wall.

I dread the day that this faulty car is out of waranty and the next issue arises.
anyone legally minded and know what to do?