Winter Tyres

[sashpe]

Winter is fast approaching and I will need winter tyres. I am not from the UK and the winters here are quite bad which is complemented by the helplessness of the local authority. I have nosed around and so far have selected Dunlop WinterSport 3D as all tests recommend them. However, some "specialists" I know are making me go for tyres one size smaller that my summer tyres (Bridgestone Potenza 235/45/17). I wouldn't have considered if prices were the same but the 225/45/17s are significantly cheaper than the 235s. I no nothing of wheels but my 17" Donningtons are already big for the Bridgestones and I fear the smaller size ones will be waaay too small. Do you have any suggestions? Will the 225s fit on the Donningtons? I have contacted my VW dealer but I am still waitiong for their reply. Besides, the price they are going to offer will be rediculous!

[Nobby]

Hi

Not sure what will go on the standard wheels i'm afraid

The VW price list for France has the following set of wheels & tyres which are slightly narrower (which is better for snow) but it doesn't say what brand the tyres are and they are not cheap !
Roues complètes hiver Sima 205/50 R17 ET 39 1K8073247FD8Z8 1 609 €

We get some really bad snow here in the Haute Loire, I was used to UK winters and had never needed winter tyres so I was very sceptical about them until coming here

After digging my X-Trail out of a few snow drifts I invested in some Michelin 4X4 Alpin tyres a few years back, I was amazed at the difference they make ! I highly recommend them

I'll be leaving the Scirocco in the garrage when it snows, The X-Trail is suprisingly effective on the right rubber

[sashpe]

Thanks, Nobby! I know what you mean - winter tires are not just a "should" but a "must" in the winter conditions where I live. I don't know about France or UK but in Bulgaria policeman can issue tickets in winter (1 Nov - 1 April) if winter tires and DRL are not on!

After your post I checked the German website and it says the same thing - 205/50/17. I wander what my dealer would say That's good news as this size is cheaper. However, those fat 235 tires look sooooooo good on the Roc. I would imagine that 205/50 will look ridiculous.

[Nobby]

Yeah

I've got the Doningtons myself, love 'em

A lot of people here buy a set of steel wheels for their winter tyres and maybe some plastic wheel trims

the only legal requirement here is at some ski stations, there are laybys reserverd for fitting snow chains and you are not allowed to go any further without them

Personally I get my tyres swapped on my alloy rims on the X-Trail arround December time and then again in the spring. It's cheaper than buying steel rims and looks better

However the tyres are pretty wide on the Scirocco & expensive too so it might be worth getting a complete second set of narrower wheels & tyres

[sashpe]

However the tyres are pretty wide on the Scirocco & expensive too so it might be worth getting a complete second set of narrower wheels & tyres

This is probably not a bad idea, although I wouldn't want to spoil the car's looks with some rubbish steel wheels and pathetic wheel covers. I actually have a friend that has a car repair shop and swaps my summer/winter tires for free. It's still a hassle though cause I have to find time to do it when he also has time.

BTW, according to my modest knowledge of wheels and tires, there is no way that 205/50/17 will fit on a 8J 17" Donnington wheel! Dunlop's website indicates 5.5 to 7.5 wheel width for the 205/50/17 whereas mine are 8! Looking at Dunlop's specs a 225/45/17 and 235/45/17 are best suited for an 8J tire. Can somebody confirm this as I am a total noob in this area?

[dkfsk]

BTW, according to my modest knowledge of wheels and tires, there is no way that 205/50/17 will fit on a 8J 17" Donnington wheel! Dunlop's website indicates 5.5 to 7.5 wheel width for the 205/50/17 whereas mine are 8! Looking at Dunlop's specs a 225/45/17 and 235/45/17 are best suited for an 8J tire. Can somebody confirm this as I am a total noob in this area?[/quote]


Your conclusions are wright. I think that the 235/45/17 would be the best.

[scottyroc]

225 would be great for snow as i'm sure your aware it will have a narrower surface area therefore have more pressure pushing through the snow..

the downside of this is your wheels become very exposed to MR Kerb, so be careful...a 235 or 245 offers a bit of cushion against kerbs whereas a 225 shall offer none, you've been warned..

Maybe just buy 3 more spacesaver spare wheels, they be great in the snow...

[IROC-CH]

Hi

I just saw your posts about winter tyre s. I have been looking into this today here in Switzerland, I went direct to the VW dealer here is what they proposed me :-

Cheap option Gislaved Euro Frost 3 - 205/55R/16 91H

Slightly more option Continental TS 830 - 205/55R/16 91H

The above would ride on a new set of mags which are not VW branded. Which I think is not good from VW they should have their own winter mags. Anyway I digress

The 3rd option was to keep my Donnington's and place the Continental TS 830 225/45R/17

I also got a quote from tyer dealer and they suggested Michelin P. Alpine at 235/45R/17

So all in all a little confusing day, as i have been reading up on this and I am also concerned that my scIROCco will be a lost with out its IROC not having the nicer
on it.

Maybe people in other parts of winter land can shed some light on this.

Safe driving in the snow.

[sashpe]

IROC, I have dug into this and got somewhat the same response - 205/55/16 or 205/50/17. VW were clueless whether I would need new wheels for these (!!!) which is totally screwed up as they are the ones that should know best. Well, whatever! So far I am considering either buying steel wheels and fitting 205/55/16 or risking it and buying 225/45/17 for my Donningtons. The second option is the more "pleasant-to-look-at" one but I will be risking kerbing (or even breaking the wheels in more extreme situations). 205/55/16 with steel wheels option is cheaper, safer and seems better for snow but can you imagine the Roc with cheap plastic wheel covers on? Yuk

[cosmin86cos]

I am going with 225 45 17 on my Doningtons and plan to switch to 18 mallory the next summer.

[IROC-CH]

Evening,

hehe I definitely could not imagine a ROC with plastic wheel covers.

I am going to get a quote from a tyer tomorrow. I think that I am going to chance it on 225/45/17 on my donningtons. Then maybe when i am in the UK later this year see about buying a new set of summer wheels complete from the VW in london.

Will see how it goes.

My next problem will be figuring how to fit the snow chains

[TomRol]

I see I'm not alone in my pangs over the choices. Surprising how unhelpful and sometimes ignorant the VW dealerships are.
However, I drive a lot in winter conditions and will make my choice based on experience, which I'd like to share and maybe some of you will find it helpful:

- Safety, practicality and common sense when it comes to the expense would be my priority. For this very reasons I will not be fitting winter tyres onto my beautiful Donningtons. I prefer to save them for fair weather. And I don't want them to rot too quickly, or to kerb them on narrower tyres.

- It's a lot better to get another set of rims for winter. Chances are you'll be keeping your car for about 5 years and relatively frequent tyre changes spoil the tyres and rims. Plus - storing them without rims increases the chance of warped tyres. And that can prove expensive! Not only do you need to get a new set of rubber, but also risk damaging your bearings and suspension. Get an inexpensive set of alloys and keep the winters on them.

- I'd get narrower tyres and fit them onto smaller rims. 215/55 R16 - rim width should be 6.00J to 7.50J, or 205/55 R16 - rim width should be 5.50J to 7.50J. If you plan to drive a lot in snow, go for 205. If more slush and rain is your environment then 215 will be fine.

- Don't be so concerned about the looks. OK, the car will not look as good, but this is winter and chances are it will be grimy and less of a looker anyway. Look at rally cars on snow and ice - on tall and skinny tyres. Do they look any worse? I don't think so. These tyres serve a purpose.

- Chances are you don't need a speed index of V or W, unless you belt down winter autobahns. An index of H (homologated for up to 210km/h) should suffice. Don't get an XL (increased load) tyre. It may impact comfort considerably and the Scirocco doesn't need the increased strength of the sidewall.

- An R16 rim is fine for winter. You buy a slightly cheaper tyre and you don't need the low profile that much simply because you will be slipping and sliding anyway, long before you get the side G force that a lower profile allows.

- In my experience, the Pirelli SottoZero is probably one of the best winters. This season there's a new SottoZero 2 which is said to be even better. They may be a bit more expensive, but are well worth it (based on experience with the first generation of SottoZeros)

I'm getting 205/55 R16 SottoZero 2 and am fitting them onto J7.00 Dezent alloys. I'm choosing a model with the simplest spoke pattern to facilitate cleaning in winter. The Donningtons will have their Potenzas pumped up to a slightly higher pressure and will hibernate till the skiing season is over.

[sashpe]

Very nice write-up TomRol and welcome to the forum! Thanks for sharing your experience. You seem to have chosen the more practical way round rather than the more cool approach, which I kind of approve as I am heading this way also.

Quick question - you say cheap alloys: How cheap should one go? Buy the cheapest (that look decent of course) or buy cheap ones? I asking cause I am not a specialist on wheels. Logically, I would think the cheapest ones will break/kerb easily or, even, damage the tyre. So I am not sure if "cheapest" is the right way to go but I also know that "cheap" is more expensive than "cheapest". I hope you get my point!

[TomRol]

Thanks Sashpe. Yes, cheap can prove lousy in the long run and thus more expensive. But what I have in mind are rims from a reputable company. For winter, I wouldn't consider top products from OZ, Momo or such. Then again, I wouldn't think about cheap Chinese imports that bend and rust. There are quite a few middle of the road good companies. I'd tend to go for German products/distributers who need to abide by TUV approval and are therefore considerably more trustworthy. Ones with good products are Ronal, or four companies within the Alcar group (AEZ, Dotz, Dezent and Enzo). Check out http://www.alcar.de" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; A 16" rim should be around 100 Euros (in the UK, probably more pricey, but the again - everything in Britain is). I consider that to be a reasonable price given that the rims will serve the lifetime of the car, plus chances are you'll be selling your VW with those rims/winter tyres and will be getting some extra for that. Just make sure you're getting a recognized brand name rim with TUV approval - and from a reputable distributor.

[skyblues11]

hi guys!

i have been following this thread with a lot of interest. i live in middle england where the treat of snow is very little.

however, i have thought about this subject in the past and reckon winter tyres are a good idea. afterall, in professional moptorsport, aren't teams chooses diff. compound/ tyres for different conditions?

so, my question is, do you all think its enough for me to get a winter tyre of the standards size of the Donningtons?

i may not need a narrower tyre because of the lack of snow. But here its the ground temp. , surface water and frosty roads i am concerned about. my thought is to get a cheap set of alloys for the winter tyres, but of the same size. i am no expert on alloys and prefer not to worry about spacers.

or you guys think a narrower tyre for winter is better anyway regardless of snow ?

[sashpe]

Skyblues, I believe the width of the tires is important for snow and ice as the weight of the vehicle is distributed to a smaller footprint which kind of makes the vehicle "heavier" and more stable. For driving in cold but dry conditions high traction would still be necessary and wider tires are more suitable. That said, you should be totally fine with putting winter tires on the Donningtons. Just bare in mind that the wider tires are much more expensive than the narrower ones. Besides, I wasn't an expert on wheels but a few hours on the Net and I now get it (far better than many wheels salesmen). So if you like a wheel model go ahead but start counting cash now!

[IROC-CH]

Hi All

Seems like a lot of thought has gone in to everyones winter driving and the Scirocco. So I was at the VW shop here in Switzerland yesterday and have finally made the decision to go with Continental T830's 205/55/16. There is a huge premium on VW branded rims so have gone with a dealer aproved one from their catalogue.

Its funny to think that you have to go through all this. You would think that if you live in a country where winter wheels are required they would have it as part of a winter pack or sorts. At least then you would not have the headache of deciding.

So next week tuesday the winter shoes get put on which could not be a moment to soon as the white gold is coming , you can see it coming down the surrounding mountains.

Whooooo hoooo get yourselves ready.

[polo classic]

Using 225/45-17 on the standard rocco rims should be no problem. I drove 5 years on that on my Golf 5 and they are not that different. Even drove faster than the A6 Allroads up to Kvitfjell (where they held the 1994 Olympics downhill)

I will be using 225/40-18 on 8x18 and 245/40 on 10x18 on my Scirocco here in Norway this winter. I do quite a bit of skijumping, so I do not always follow the main roads either.

Might switch for some 8x19 rims with 235/35 later in the winter, as the 18's have studs in them

[skyblues11]

for the UK, i guess the main problem is surface water and ground frost on tarmac.

so how do you guys store the tyres? are there any particular proceedure to prolong their lives? Do you buy a new set every 2 years?

[polo classic]

in a kool, dry and dark place. Lying flat, not standing up

Should last 3-4 seasons, after 3-4 seasons the rubber is too hard to give proper grip anyway