Possibly Clutch Assembly Fault...?

[Dongers]

Got my new (to me) Roc a couple of weeks ago but have noticed when I reverse out of my parking space (in front of my garage, up a slight incline) I'm getting a drone/whine/howl....

Have seen the threads regarding this on the forum

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... 25&t=18272" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/ ... =2&t=18137" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and I'm looking for some confirmation for you guys that this is the problem. I have a warranty on the car from the dealer I bought it from, but want to make sure I have all my ducks in a row before I pick up the phone for an argument - 'It's wear and tear', 'Oh no it isn't' (in best Punch n Judy style!!)

2.0L TSi
Manual Gearbox
58 Plate

Attached is a recording of the noise, 3 times. The first one is fairly quiet, the second you probably wont even hear, but the third is REALLY pronounced

Can you guys give me your opinions...Do I have the Clutch Assembly Fault..?

*EDIT* File isn't attached as I cant upload MP3/ACC/WAV files to the site....Please find it here: https://app.box.com/s/57e93w9qshvgnaa3dw6tmpc4dgrh9nb6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Various sound file formats, so hopefully you should be able to access it with no issues, let me know if you cant!

Cheers

Dongers

[sciroccorich]

Dongers,

99% sure I know exactly what your problem is as I had the same issue with mine. It is your clutch release bearing, this is a common fault with the TSI.

Please see my recent thread called "Warranty success because of research" in General Scirocco talk and read all my comments and advice to others with the same problem. The fact that you have a warranty should mean it cost you nothing, just read the thread on what to say to the dealer.

Don't let them fob you off as this is caused by a defect part (that VW revised), not wear and tear!

Hope this helps.

[sciroccorich]

Forgot to mention, your sound clips sound exactly the same as the noise my car was making.

[Dongers]

Cheers Rich...as I thought!

Time for a few phone calls I think!!!

Going to gather the info from your thread (and the others) and will post back here, just to confirm I have all the correct details etc. Would appreciate it if you could give it the once over once I have, to confirm all correct.

Cheers

Dongers

[sciroccorich]

Dongers,

No worries mate, I'll help you all I can to get it sorted.

[xjay1337]

Where did you buy the car from?

You'd have a hard time getting any help from the garage I fear, as it's probably deemed a "wear and tear" part.
Worth a try though.

[sciroccorich]

Xjay1337,

A clutch release bearing is a wear and tear part, but this issue is caused by a defect part that VW are aware of (which is why they revised it).

Prove to the warranty company that the part is defect, give them the TSB number that VW issued about it and they will pay out. I know this because they did with mine.

Don't get fobbed off with the wear and tear rubbish unless your clutch release bearing is significantly older than your clutch itself, which I doubt as they normally get changed together.

[xjay1337]

You wouldn't (usually) fit a new release bearing without fitting a new clutch. Would be very sloppy work on behalf of a garage.
Unfortunately there's no real way to tell the age of a release bearing vs a clutch..

If the car has had a clutch but the release bearing wasn't changed...then that's tough luck. But you would likely never know.

I'm not saying "don't try and get it repaired for free" - of course, that would be a great result (and if so, happy & awesome days).

But what I am saying is that parts get revised very regularly, to revise a clutch release bearing isn't out of the ordinary, many times parts (through testing, warranty etc) are found that they are more prone to fail. Where a car may have spent a majority of it's time around town or doing shorter journeys it's only to be expected for these parts to wear out.

I'm sure there may be a known issue , and excuse my not having time to check but unless there is a dealer issued TSB with attached warranty code then you are on a 50/50 as to whether the warranty company / dealer would honour it...
Not being a hard arse but I wouldn't expect it to be covered. But all the best nevertheless

[sciroccorich]

Agreed......but my warranty company paid out and that was the AA (Yes I know ).

I know that parts gets revised on a regular basis but this defect part can't handle the oil pressure when cold and leaks fluid over your clutch.

For this reason, it would be unfair to charge a car owner for a part that is not worn but in fact a manufacturer defect. There is a TSB number out on this (I used it), so as long as the dealer admits that this part has failed and is not due to wear and tear (which mine did), then your warranty should cover it.

The dealer will always try to fob you off at first saying that the part won't be covered due to wear and tear, if you stand your ground, give them the TSB number, make them aware you know the history of this common problem and the fact that the revised part is a one piece design now (previously a two and part plastic), then they will know that your no mug and should admit the defect to the warranty company. Dont be rude to the dealer, just give the impression you are clued up on it.

Really hope Dongers gets the success I did!!!

[Dongers]

OK guys, need some quick replies here....

Car is in, dropped it off this morning (didn't get the 'Roc R I was hoping for as courtesy car, but an Up! LOL ) for diagnosis (£96 quid for them to plug in a reader to the OBD, which probably wont tell them anything if it IS the clutch....right?)

Anyway, had recording of the sound, played that do the Mech, also demonstrated the noise, and was saying to him it sounds like the Pressure Plate, TSB been issued. lots of other people had it etc etc and the guy agreed with me.

He then noticed that it was 2.0L TSi and said 'Hold on a sec, that only happens with the Diesels' WTF....?????

Can a few people confirm if you have diesel or petrols engines please..?

Don't want to go in all guns blazing, if it definite WONT be this....

Cheers

Dongers

[dimexi]

I have a petrol engine and this happened to me. I am not sure how it would be different in the petrol OR diesel; same clutch mechanism.

ALSO, tell them not to plug anything into the OBD to charge you £96 for - that's superfluous and will only increase your bill for no reason

[Dongers]

OK, just got phone call from dealership....£500 labour JUST to take the gearbox out to further diagnose the issue....not happy....

Also told me that while the replacement part number (06J141015JX) IS applicable to my ROC, the TSB (2028783) ISNT. How does that work?

So can someone confirm i have correct TSB?

Speaking to warranty people tomorrow and the dealer i bought it from (mechanic told me there is no way this has happened in the last month, how long i have had it for) as may have some recourse with them

Will keep you posted on developments, but if someone can confirm the TSB number that would be good

Cheers

Dongers




Sent from my Touchpad using Tapatalk

[Gaz r]

From the research I've done the tsb refers to a Passat. However this problem is common to this engine with a manual box. So it effects the Golf, Passat, Eos, etc... Basically all cars within the group with the 2.0tsi engine.
As others have said it has been covered by warranty and in some cases goodwill!
However you will need to authorise the garage to drop the gearbox and accept the costs involved if the problem is diagnosed as wear and tear and is not covered by warranty or goodwill.

I have exactly the same problem with mine, 2.0tsi on a 58 plate with 55k on the clock and have an extended warranty with vw. I do not however trust my dealer as far as I could throw them!! After weighing up the pro's and cons I've decided not to pursue it. As I see it they could drop the box and agree that the thrust bearing or clutch plate is at fault and cover it under warranty. But with 55k and only 7.5k done by me, it could possibly need a clutch kit and a new dmf,plus all the mechanics I've spoken to have said to change both at the same time.
So you see the dilemma for myself, I can get a full clutch kit at cost and including fitting would probably work out less than taking this up with vw.
From what I gather as the noise only happens when cold it will probably stop soon as the weather warms up. And I'm sure this could carry on for years before the clutch actually gave up. I am toying with the idea of giving it back half way through the finance agreement anyway because I don't fancy owning another money pit!!

To sum up bud you roll the dice and take your chances. I know a lot of people have good relationships with their local dealer, but I bought my car from a dealer 300 miles away. The last time my car was in the local dealer it left a sour taste in my mouth and I'll only use them again if something goes wrong and I know my warranty will cover it. The clutch howl is too much of a grey area for me!!
Good luck mate whatever you decide. ;-)

[sciroccorich]

Let me give you a bit of clarity to this from experience of it happening to me,

The problem is the Clutch release bearing, it is a bad design (which has been revised) and the problem you are experiencing is a part that is failing (defect), not because of wear and tear. Remind them you are fully aware of this common issue and give them the the TSB2028783. Don't let them fob you off because they will try.

Prices-

New release bearing including labour = Approx £650 at dealer
New clutch kit (Inc release bearing) and labour = Approx £850

Trust me, this is the way to go........If you have a warranty, get the dealer to take of your gearbox, remove the clutch release bearing, admit it is a defect old revision part that has failed and not due to wear and tear.

When the Warranty company eventually pays out for this defect and revised part (around £650), put your hand in your own pocket (if you can afford it) and pay for a new clutch kit (£200) to be fitted while your gearbox is off............Most of the cost is in the labour!!!!

Worth doing I can assure you, your car will run sweet (no noise when pulling off) and your clutch release bearing won't be leaking fluid all over your pressure plate on cold starts.

I wouldn't recommend ignoring it, they are fully aware of this manufacturer fault!!

[Gaz r]

Here is a link to a thread showing the tsb:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.p ... ring/page2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is from an American site. I have approached the dealer and quoted this number and they claimed they couldn't find it. If you read the copies of the tsb the scirocco isn't mentioned as you can't buy it in the states. I realise that it's the same engine and transmission as those covered by the tsb. But if you can't get the dealer to acknowledge it then you have to agree to the labour charge for dropping the gearbox, hoping the warranty company will pay for it after a correct diagnosis. And as I said I don't trust my dealer after previous experience.
Once they've dropped the gearbox you're committed whatever happens.

[Dongers]

Spoken to the warranty place and they have said they will cover some of the labour...Good....However clutch is specifically excluded in the warranty so if the dealer comes back and says it is clutch related I suspected they will back track on this....

Have told dealer to drop the gearbox and see what it is.

I think I will try and get them to speak to me BEFORE speaking to the warranty people as if they DO mention clutch, I'm gonna get screwed over. If I can get the dealer to admit that is it faulty part and not wear and tear then i might be able to get warranty co to cough up....


Updates later today...!

Cheers

Dongers

[dimexi]

Spoken to the warranty place and they have said they will cover some of the labour...Good....However clutch is specifically excluded in the warranty so if the dealer comes back and says it is clutch related I suspected they will back track on this....

Have told dealer to drop the gearbox and see what it is.

I think I will try and get them to speak to me BEFORE speaking to the warranty people as if they DO mention clutch, I'm gonna get screwed over. If I can get the dealer to admit that is it faulty part and not wear and tear then i might be able to get warranty co to cough up....


Updates later today...!

Cheers

Dongers

I think as sciroccorich said, they will find the fault with the throwout bearing. If they do, then tell them to replace that, and shell out for the clutch assembly itself. If your warranty company cover the ToB and labour, then the clutch wont be too bad.

Also, you say your problem is "a few weeks"... What are the dealers you bought it off saying?!?! You might have a case on the "sale of goods act" or whatever that act is called

[Dongers]

Have told them to speak to me BEFORE warranty co so that I can argue the toss with them about liability....need to get them to admit liability BEFORE they speak to warranty guys...

Hopefully get something back at least....

Cheers

Dongers

[selleym]

What was your outcome from this? Heard mine howl for the first time today! So starting to gather info!
Thanks

[daves2369]

Im in the same boat but vw love fobbing you off own the car for a month and experianced the clutch issue I took in along with another issue they completly ignored the clutch issue and said my other was due to being knocked (there was no damage whatsoever they just looked at it without doing any work)

took it in as my car missfired refused to start and started fine with vw and they said nothing we can do as we cant pinpoint the exact coipack which is causing the problem all 4 clynders reported missfire.

now I have the chain rattle which is due in tomorrow yay as i told them its a common problem apparently not!

all in a month