R Brake pad Upgrade

[montstable]

Hi All,

Need some advice. I have an issue with the current brake pads on the R, they are overheating and transferring material onto the discs causing juddering. I realise that the basic brake setup on the R is not great and that the brake pads are comically small (seriously VW what the hell!), however, would like to replace them with some road/race spec pads.

Any ideas??

Cheers

[RoccoR1]

I would upgrade the whole front brake system rather than just pads. Minimum 4 piston calipers, 355mm rotors and of course some street/semi track pads. This will take care of the comically small brakes that the R comes with. (I've done this myself and have found it a million times better) brembo have a good package for the R.

[montstable]

Yes I would love to, however, thats £2000 compared to £50 which I'm just not willing to spend at the moment. Although I whole heartedly see your point and in a perfect world I would do that. For the time being I just want to replace the pads to try and stop this one problem. I'm really not fussed at getting more track focused pads as I don't do a huge amount of miles on the road and go to the track once every couple of months.

Out of interest how much did your full brake conversion cost, plus what is it?

[Chungster]

Are they overheating thru normal driving??? Or just on track??

I found the proper VW discs to take a good level of abuse on stock OE pads.

Maybe go for Ferodo DS2500 or Mintex 1144s although the letter may produce more noise. Make sure you get a new set of discs along with the new pads

[montstable]

Just on the track, and then it takes about two weeks for them to stop the "juddering" driving on the road. Have had loads of people look at them, and we all seem to be in agreement that the stock discs are quite substantial and can take a hammering. However the pads are leaving physical material on the pads (you can actually scratch it off) therefore thought to replace the pads and skim the discs.

[Chungster]

How long are your track sessions and are you letting them cool down properly? Might be down to your driving style perhaps? Don't think in the 3 years of running a 345mm set up I've seen pad deposits on the OE discs

OEM discs are not that expensive - just make sure you get it from VW or TPS and not copies (try really do suck!!!)

I did unintentionally run a copy disc from Pagid with 1144s. Squeaked like a right mutha and juddered like mad. Pads had disintegrated tho for some reason so that was ditched for some APs

[fun meter]

I wouldn't bother with 1144's, they are really noisy and not that sharp for normal driving. One or two hard applications and they become strong. But you can still overheat them, then they start to physically break up and loose performance.

I now use Tarox Strada pads front and back. Really good every day and will take plenty of abuse on the track, maybe not just as much as 1144s. But they last better, no noise, good from cold. I got them from Larkspeed.

Don't put the brakes on when you come in from the track and let the car rest.

[b0rk]

The factory R front pad is made by Galfer (galfer.es) and not as good IMHO for track use the as the pre 2010 S3/R32 factory pad made by Mintex. At some stage VW deleted the retaining clip from the outer pad and switched over the Galfer for all 345mm single piston callipers. The problem you'll find with aftermarket pad's is they will all still have the outer retaining clip which clashes with the calliper spring retainer as VW haven't change the PN of the pad.

However for predominately track I'd go for DS2500's up front or if more road orientated Mintex 1144's. At the moment I'm trying brembo sport HP2000 pads road bite seems decent and a shade better than OEM but haven't tried them on track yet. The temperature/friction curve claimed by Brembo appears much better at the more extreme end than factory. Personally I found DS2500's to squealed quite a bit if not used hard regularly. Cost wise upgraded pads are all much of muchness so I wouldn't be swayed by price.

[montstable]

Thanks everyone for your help on this, much appreciated. I have decided on the DS2500's however for the life of me I can't find part numbers anywhere - can anyone help with them?

[b0rk]

FCP1765H (front) and FCP1636H (rear).
The pads do not have a wear sensor so you'll need to either disable the function with VCDS or cut the sensor wire and connector off the factory pads wire the two leads together or get a bypass clip. Option two is a easiest.

[DaveB1970]

Haven't been on here for a bit....

Lots of confusion regarding pads...

Here's some facts....

M1144 is a track pad, its a metallic ceramic pad....it's an off shoot from the very capable M1155 & M1166

They do get accused of being wooden but that's not because they're glazed easily and need rebedding, you can get a 1144 hot let it cool and it WILL come back to you. 1144 costs half of the next pad along but has a wear rate of a third higher

Ds2500 is marketed as a track pad when its categorically not capable on track, it has an amount of rubber in its mix which when overheated leaves the pad and ends up on your wheels and side skirts. The remaining pad is honeycombed and seriously compromised with a huge wear rate. DS2500 is a fast road pad.....that said 3 x 130-30mph stops at silver stone or the M40 generate the same amount of heat, the pad doesn't know you're not on a race track

Pagid have released the brand name to Euro Car Parts for a period of five years......this is why when you go into a ECP store you,will find Pagid branded deicer, spanners and a whole load of other non brake related gear.

These brakes in the main are NOT manufactured by TMD Friction (parent company) they are manufactured in the Far East under license, people think they are buying German stuff and they're absolutely not.

brembo HP1000 pads are also definitely made in China under a brand name licensing agreement, BREMBO in the main DON'T manufacture brake pads.

Galfer only make for OEMs you,wont get Galfer on a car from an aftermarket supplier, ts good Italian stuff been around 50 years plus.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth

[Deacon]

DaveB could you recommend a fast road brake upgrade set up for the Rocco that'll work behind the stock 17's?

Cheers!

[DaveB1970]

Pretty sure the R or S3 brakes will fit behind stock 17s they certainly fit behind 17" monza s on the Mk5

m1144s and two litres of ATE superblue and some HEL hoses would come in at under £150

If you google NQSBBK and have a read, we've had a lot of success with that kit too if you're pockets are a little deeper

[Deacon]

Cheers Dave.

The R or S3 kits heavier than I'd like ideally.

Have had a look at the nqsbbk but know from Andy (wigit) that they needed spacers behind the stock 18's and I want to avoid spacers really.

The m114 set up sounds like a good stop gap until I can find something light enough that fits without spacers though.

[Chungster]

Deacon

DaveB's post further up answers your question surely ?

M1144 is TRACK pad

DS2500 is FAST ROAD pad

Unless you do plenty of track days or drive on the road in that kind of way, DS2500's will suit you fine.

I have just re fitted a new set of these to the APs and they are perfect for fast road use with no noise.

My 2p

[Deacon]

Deacon

DaveB's post further up answers your question surely ?

M1144 is TRACK pad

DS2500 is FAST ROAD pad

Unless you do plenty of track days or drive on the road in that kind of way, DS2500's will suit you fine.

I have just re fitted a new set of these to the APs and they are perfect for fast road use with no noise.

My 2p

Bit confused - Dave suggested the m1144 with the hel lines and ate fluid as a cheap upgrade? In fact Dave's post doesn't seem to recommend the ds2500s at all as I'm reading it?

I'm after a BB kit ideally but want one that fits behind the 17's and doesn't need spacers.

[Chungster]

Read his "facts" post after bork's

But by all means go with M1144s if u think that suits ur needs.

I've tried both and know what I prefer that's all.

[Deacon]

Read his "facts" post after bork's

But by all means go with M1144s if u think that suits ur needs.

I've tried both and know what I prefer that's all.

Yeah that's the post I was going on which doesn't seem to me to recommend the ds2500s much but does the m1144's.

[Chungster]

He doesnt recommend them no but by his own words the M1144 is a track pad not really a fast road pad.

That's the point I'm making since ur asking about a fast road set up, which the DS2500 is biased towards (and in my own experience can handle some track abuse as well)

Will also say that AP for a good while supplied the DS2500 pad with their BBKs, mine included. If its crap then I don't think they would have done that would you?

[cyman]

i know its not a scirocco but i used ferodo ds2500 on my rx7 road legal track day car which was running 356mm ksport 8pot setup and would highly recomend them. the car was running 500bhp and did 4 or 5 track days a year.and about 2000miles on the road never had an issue on road or track.