My Scirroco GT was broken into...

[ZephyR]

My car only locks automatically if the engine hasn`t been turned on as it would be silly if it locked all the time as owners would be locked out all the time.

Yep mine's the same. If you unlock it and don't open the doors within 30 seconds it relocks itself.

I would have thought that a car that locks itself at the petrol station or while you are away for a minute is a liability. So easy to leave your keys inside and be locked out. And what if you've left the kids inside - can they get out? Will they set the alarm off?

[Thommohawk]

Interesting read, will be good to hear the outcome. I did see the big about BMW on Watchdog myself, but I think there was something more fundamentally flaud there as the engine imobiliser was also deactivated in that case allowing the car to be started.

[LewisSellers]

My car only locks automatically if the engine hasn`t been turned on as it would be silly if it locked all the time as owners would be locked out all the time.

If you press the fob button twice your deactivating the alarm and the deadlocks I believe.
My mate is in the police and hasn`t heard about cloning signals its usually been a oversight by the driver pressing the wrong button I`m afraid. But never say never.

Interesting.. I don't know about the first bit, and I'm not sure if pressing the lock button twice deactivates the alarm and the deadlocks. I'll have to test that, because I do press the button numerous times when walking back into the house!

The reason I'm sure the windows were locked is because I'd been out and had the windows down. I always get out the car with the windows still down and lock the doors and continue to hold the lock button down to close the windows. I know dead certain that I wouldn't hit the wrong button the key fob.

Regarding the 'cloning signals' system, It was a VW Dealership that told me about this. He actually said it was a trend that they'd seen... I searched on the internet very quickly and found a few. Strangely enough, one of the sites has taken it off now but it was here:

[links removed]

Strangely enough, I emailed Cobra yesterday as they specialise in Car security and are one of the companies that you can install things from base spec when ordering your car. The guy I spoke to said that it was unlikely to be a code scanner as he thought that the VW's had rolling car security on them. I'm not sure if me clicking the remote numerous times would get around this or not, but he thought it would be more likely that someone would try and clone the physical key using something called a 'tippie lock device'. I took the plastic cover off the door handle on my Scirocco today (which takes about 2 seconds once you know how!) and the actual key lock is quite scratched... I've never used that before and it is possible it got scratched in the dealership, but that adds another element of possibility.

Obviously this is all speculation, I'm positive I locked the car and there had been other cars in my area previously (Audi's and Skodas) that have been broken into without the need for a key. Not very often, but the police didn't really know how it had been done. When Forensics came down to check the car, they said that someone had broken into one of their colleagues cars without forced entry and they knew for a fact the door was locked as they were there. There was £2k's worth of Golf equipment in the boot that was stolen (which I'm guessing probably wouldn't have been paid out on insurance!).

Either way, I'm not too sure, but it's certainly opened my eyes a bit and made me think about extra security to protect my Rocco!

Cheers,
Lewis

[a4gee]

Wonder because you pressed the lock twice to close the windows, the car window clinch has happened - ie the window goes up then it goes down on its own?
Then its easy meat for the b4stards

[LewisSellers]

The doors were locked when I got back to the car and the windows were closed though... It's really confusing!

I really have no idea!

[a4gee]

Maybe then whilst you kept pressing away in your home you have pressed the unlock by error this letting them in get the stuff then leave and the car will lock automatically.

[LewisSellers]

Maybe then whilst you kept pressing away in your home you have pressed the unlock by error this letting them in get the stuff then leave and the car will lock automatically.

I'll try it tomorrow and report back! Seems a bit silly if the lock button unlocks your car if pressed an even number of times, can't see that happening but i'll try it.

[RW1]

No it doesn't. It cycles the dead-locks on and off by continually pressing the locking button.

Unlocking unlocks but if a door isn't opened, it relocks within a short time period. If the door is opened, it won't self lock again. Thatcham Cat 1 standard.

The fob is code hopping. If they have used this then all Thatcham Cat alarms are compromised and the police would have more reports generally.

If the door is opened by mechanical means (jimmy's), the alarm siren will go off on entry as the alarm stays primed.

The scratched key hole is the worry.

C.

[LewisSellers]

No it doesn't. It cycles the dead-locks on and off by continually pressing the locking button.

Unlocking unlocks but if a door isn't opened, it relocks within a short time period. If the door is opened, it won't self lock again. Thatcham Cat 1 standard.

The fob is code hopping. If they have used this then all Thatcham Cat alarms are compromised and the police would have more reports generally.

If the door is opened by mechanical means (jimmy's), the alarm siren will go off on entry as the alarm stays primed.

The scratched key hole is the worry.

C.

Thanks for your message! Interesting

Did some testing this morning! No matter how many times you press the lock button, the doors are still locked. The little red light flashing to show the alarm is active always stays on too. I didn't actually check the unlocking of the car, but I assume you're correct there.

I would have also assumed the fob is code hopping. However, If I've pressed the key multiple times when walking back to the house, would they have had a copy of multiple signals? I know for a fact (out of habit) I continually press the button. I know someone who used to own a Saab, they had issues with their key and it's because their key was cycling but out of sync with the car.. They had a rolling set of three codes and if they pressed the button when out of signal of the car, it put it all out of sync (if that makes sense).. I just wondered if it was possible for that to be the case?

I don't think the car would have been accessed via a Jimmy. I would guess that it would have been obvious with damage?

We don't particularly live in an area where someone would walk around to try out car doors to see if they're open anyway. We live in a cul-de-sac with only 2 other houses on.. They broke in under a street lamp and the Police thought the car had been targeted and the items were stolen to order.

The scratched Key Hole is a possibility, but it just strikes me as strange that a VW dealership would alert me to the fact one of these boxes could be used. It was their master service man who explained this to me, so he's obviously up to date with everything to do with the cars...

I haven't notified them of the scratched key hole yet, I'll try my key in it later and see if it still works. It's only surface scratches (a bit like what you'd expect if you'd missed the key slot a few times!) but it's never been used by me. Does anyone know if the onboard computer would log whether the car was opened by Key or by Remote? I know it doesn't save what times the car was opened so it's unlikely...

Cheers,
Lewis

[RW1]

If the car is opened via the Key Lock, should the alarm go off?

Yes it does. With fob part present or just a metal key.

C.

[a4gee]

I was meaning - if you did lock the car then when you keep pressing away in your house but you have pressed the unlock by accident. This would let them in. When they left the car would then automatically lock.

[Fifer]

I was meaning - if you did lock the car then when you keep pressing away in your house but you have pressed the unlock by accident. This would let them in. When they left the car would then automatically lock.

Surely that would only let them in if they decided to open the door within ten minutes of the car being unlocked?

[LewisSellers]

I was meaning - if you did lock the car then when you keep pressing away in your house but you have pressed the unlock by accident. This would let them in. When they left the car would then automatically lock.

Surely that would only let them in if they decided to open the door within ten minutes of the car being unlocked?

Ah sorry, I see what you mean now!

If the car has been locked and then unlocked (without the doors opening) it only takes about 30 seconds before the car relocks the doors again... Plus, It'd be pretty hard to knock the unlock button on the VW key fob, it's slanted away from you and your hand would have to be in a different position. I'm positive the car was locked which obviously adds to my confusion.

I tried my key in the hidden key slot yesterday and it works. There was quite a lot of lubricant in the lock (not sure whether that would be from VW or not?) which came out on the key when I pulled it back out...

Still waiting for the car to be fixed!

[RW1]

Well while you are waiting I suggest you find somewhere to overnight it. A cul-de-sac is a prime target, even if there is a street lamp. No body passes so they have more time undisturbed.

If you can't protect it for the entry, then move the target is the principle. Find a lock-up or a little old lady with an empty garage you can rent, but park out of prying eyes.

Have enough low-life around here to understand a cul-de-sac attracts them. Chased enough off in the small hours that gets the message that they are being watched if they come into the cul-de-sac. And I have 3 bright street lamps, that doesn't stop them.

Maybe not what you want, but you need to remove the tempatation as they will be back unless they get caught in the mean time. And that will screw your insurance.

C.

[LewisSellers]

Well while you are waiting I suggest you find somewhere to overnight it. A cul-de-sac is a prime target, even if there is a street lamp. No body passes so they have more time undisturbed.

If you can't protect it for the entry, then move the target is the principle. Find a lock-up or a little old lady with an empty garage you can rent, but park out of prying eyes.

Have enough low-life around here to understand a cul-de-sac attracts them. Chased enough off in the small hours that gets the message that they are being watched if they come into the cul-de-sac. And I have 3 bright street lamps, that doesn't stop them.

Maybe not what you want, but you need to remove the tempatation as they will be back unless they get caught in the mean time. And that will screw your insurance.

C.

Yeah, you're completely right. I need to find somewhere to keep it overnight really.

The police were pretty convinced that the car was targeted as soon as they came. We don't live in an area where someone would come down just on the 'off chance' a car was their to break into.. It's pretty out of the way, not built up and there's very few houses. It's obviously a good target in terms of not getting distracted, but it's also pretty obvious what you're doing if anyone spots you in the area as there are only 3 houses.

Not sure we have any little old ladies round here at the moment and our house is currently undergoing quite a big building project so our garage door isn't even on at the moment! Will try to find somewhere to house my Rocco though, don't want more break-ins!

Trying to put a positive spin on things, the gap between me Revo Remapping my car and getting a Milltek exhaust on doesn't seem so big anymore ha.

[Deacon]

I've come out to my car and found the boot open on occasion. Doesn't seem to be a fault so I'm guessing as I'm trying to get in the house laden with stuff I'm somehow managing to press and hold the boot release button. Could it be something like that? You've locked the car but accidentally opened the boot and that's how they've accessed the car?

Just a thought.

[LewisSellers]

I've come out to my car and found the boot open on occasion. Doesn't seem to be a fault so I'm guessing as I'm trying to get in the house laden with stuff I'm somehow managing to press and hold the boot release button. Could it be something like that? You've locked the car but accidentally opened the boot and that's how they've accessed the car?

Just a thought.

If you lock the car and then unlock it by mistake, it locks the car again automatically within about 30 seconds or so... This is whats confusing me.

The other thing (which doesn't come across particularly well on the internet) is where I live... I'm positive the car was locked, but lets say for example on this one day that I somehow managed to leave the car unlocked, the chance of someone coming onto our particular street and checking the doors doesn't really add up. When the police arrived, they thought someone probably followed me home a week or so before as they assumed the car was broken for the stereo being stolen to order.

I know odd things happen now and again, but I'm absolutely positive the car was locked. The fact I called the VW dealership and they told me about a box that allows someone to break in without me really digging makes me think that VW know a bit of a flaw in the cars security system but aren't telling people. If anyone has seen watchdog this week, it talks about how BMW's built between 06 and 11 with the keyless start are easy to steal... They knew about this problem but they haven't got in touch with their customers....

Things don't add up here... I know the car was locked and I even doubted myself the following day for a while... I remember the night though, I'm absolutely positive it was locked.

The police assumed it was targeted a few weeks previously and that someone planned it. Apparently these systems are quite attractive to thieves as they fit in multiple cars. The sat nav systems also apparently contain a chip which is used in Playstation 3's (not sure what chip that is, but that's what the repair company told me).

The insurance company didn't really question it when I told them it was all locked and I knew I'd locked it... I thought that was a bit strange as they didn't try to avoid taking liability for it....

Waiting to see what VW say... I'm expecting a standard response as they'll never take liability but they got in somehow and I'm positive it wasn't down to me leaving the doors unlocked.

[Deacon]

The car locks but the boot, if you open it by mistake, doesn't as its physically open rather than just unlocked.

[LewisSellers]

The car locks but the boot, if you open it by mistake, doesn't as its physically open rather than just unlocked.

Sorry, I was getting confused again. He was asking about if they gained access via the boot!

Wouldn't the alarm still be active in the case? The seats were all as normal and the parcel shelf was still in so I would guess that hasn't happened. I also had quite a dirty lid and there weren't any marks on that from a hand or anything opening it... they weren't very tidy in the car so I'd guess they came in via the side doors... nothing was taken out the boot either but it was taken off the back seats.

It's a strange one!!!!

Thanks for all the ideas though..

[Deacon]

Just tried it on mine when I went out. Opened the boot using the button on the key but didn't actually open it. Locked the car. Tried the car door and it was definitely locked. Lifted the boot open - no alarm, stuck my arm in and waved it round still no alarm. Dropped the back seat. No alarm. Didn't actually try climbing in but it looks perfectly do-able to me and could explain this break in.